Rotation

[Pure_Brew]

I haven't had the dough to make any new equipment purchases in some time (got the last payment out for the 3rd set of braces tho -YES!), but I have rotated a few things that I already own. Rather then attempting quick A/B listening, I have left different equipment that I have in rotation for months at a time just enjoying the music.

While I have enjoyed the Jolida 502BRC tube integrated immensely, the purpose was to balance out the Snell CIV's somewhat fatiguing sound. It did indeed help, but the fatigue eventually came back. I have experimented with different sources and components, and really in the end those speakers are just not for me or this modest size room.

After swapping a few speakers around, I would end up back with the CIV's because of the other benefits they offered in sound. The real turn came when I got those Snell EII's, and found that they were just to good to the music to move, so they've been sitting in the same marked position since I got them months ago, and I started buying more and more music - mostly vinyl.

What I noticed over time with the EII Jolida combo, it that there was sort of a "sameness" to the recordings. The soft tone of the speakers and amp was just a bit too much. Voices and horns sounded really nice, but likely because they get painted over with some color, which adds up to preference but not necessarily sonic accuracy. Bass was sloppy.

One thing I always noticed about the Jolida though, no matter what speakers or source was connected, piano key strokes just had this odd mushy sound that I can never quite describe. Maybe like blurring. Now I could have tube rolled ad-nauseum, but that could be costly if I did it with the power tubes, not too bad on the driver tubes though. Maybe I'll try something but I don't know yet. The money could be spent elsewhere.

So just the other day I decided to swap back in the Pioneer SX-1280, mainly becuase I don't think it should sit idle to long. Well... Everything I didn't like about the Jolida went away.

Now Im not going to tout the Pioneer as some sort of Holy Grail of audio, its just a nice, solidly built piece of equipment that is no slouch in its class. It does what does well. I think the PS Audio 200c amp out classes it, but the PS was not the answer to enjoyment on the ol' CIV's. ( in the end nothing was...). It would be interesting to rotate the PS back into the mix as I have no doubt it would sound good. However, it has developed "Rice Crispies" and its not worth the potential damage it could cause. =(

I'm also using the internal phono pre on the Pioneer, and I may rotate the Bellari in, but right now all is well and I may keep this going as is for a bit to get an overall impression.

It's interesting to me that this current set up sounds as good as it does for what it is. $135 speakers, $150 Reciever and $100 TT (technics SL-23). Lol the cart is the most expensive piece @$199 for the AT440mla. (well maybe the Belkin but that was in trade so I dunno).

While I'm always on the lookout for an upgrade, it would seem that under the circumstances, the BIGGEST change I could make performance wise, would be to go all out on a really top-notch TT/cart. Other things could surely come later.

At this point I could really sell off the rest of the equipment and speakers I have and get a kick-ass TT. I'd love to get a VPI Classic! I'll keep dreaming on that one lol.

http://www.vpiindustries.com/table-classic1.htm

Probably no one is putting that TT with a pioneer Reciever lol, but damn it would visually match it LOL

Peace

 

[speakerman1]

For my Micro BL-10X I paid 450.00. Sorbothane mat. Audio Quest wiring and some other things. To me I got a good buy. The guy I bought it from said he would buy it back. LOL Like that table is going anywhere. Will see today maybe. LOL

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

That sounds cool. I don't see myself spending on that classic 1, but they have lower priced tables too. Just always had my eye on 'em.

 

[speakerman1]

I guess the sound room rotation will be the Dynaco, Hafler preamp, Onix CDP, PT gear, Roku internet TV, Harman Kardon DVD.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

On the Vandies?

 

[speakerman1]

No it will probably be one of the Epos. I wish they were more efficient though.

Larry

 

[Pure_Brew]

I've yet to try the Bellari and compare it to the phono on the Pioneer. However, it has been sounding really nice, no complaints.

 

[Pure_Brew]

I swapped in the Bellari phono pre onto the SX1280. This is a pretty nice match. I think there are some nice benefits to driving solid state with tube pre amplification. Best of both worlds?

I listened to a bunch of LP's with this today. Great sound. I'm looking forward to trying new tubes on the Jolida. If I can get rid of that "mushy" sound, it'll stay put for awhile.

 

[Elite-ist]

I'm thinking a Bellari VP 129 would be a nice phono stage for me to get down the road. I do have one turntable outfitted with a Yamaha low output moving coil cartridge, which the Bellari won't be suited to.

I know it may be difficult to describe, but what sound quality improvements did you hear over your Pioneer receiver's phono circuitry when swapping in the Bellari, Joe?

Nando.

 

[laatsch55]

Pioneer used manly BJT trnsistors in their phono stages Nando. Alot of the better, sounding ones, I've heard , used j-fets, so there could be some audible differences.

Now, where tubes affect this I don't know.

 

[Pure_Brew]

I would have to say it was a bit more 3 dimensional. More spacious. I think the new 180g pressing of "Kind of blue", sounded a bit different then I have remembered, with Bill Evans piano just to the left in the background sounding a bit more focused and reverberant. I think too, that the symbols were a bit less "splashy".

On the other hand, the pioneer might have been a tad better in bass definition. Not to say that the sound isn't overall enjoyable, but when I can just kick back and listen and forget that I'm listening to an LP, TT, odd equipment and just enjoy the music - that's something. I think the Bellari did it better.

I was a bit surprised that the Bellari didn't smooth things over more then the pioneer though. It really didn't do that. "Poppy" more modern recordings like Adele's "21" still retained a bit of edge, which is also impacted by the AT440mla tendency toward brightness. However, that album is bright, and was that even with all tube on these relaxed Snell EIIs.

I would say in the end, the differences were not earth shattering and I would rather draw a conclusion of "different" rather then "better" at this point. When I had made some comparisons to the Denon DAP2500 phono stage, I thought that the Bellari was a clear winner. However, the overall preamp performance of the Denon is also much better then the pioneers, so when making a comparison of the pioneer/Bellari, I also have to deal the pioneer imposing itself on both phono stages. If you get what I mean.

 

[Pure_Brew]

You could get a step up Bellari step up transformer, but that's pretty steep $$$.

 

[Elite-ist]

Thanks for the information, Lee. I wonder if my Pioneer Elite C-72 Preamplifier has J-FET transistors.

Joe: Indeed, it's hard to formalize into words what you hear, but you've given me a much better idea of what to expect. A detailed sound-stage from a better phono stage would be a big draw for me, but I would hate to lose any bass definition. I have begun using a clamp, which tightens to the spindle, on my Pioneer PL-630 turntable. I think it helps in better bass definition. I haven't tried different platter mats, yet. Or even placing the turntable on a dedicated stand, which I have heard is recommended by some who have had good results from this inexpensive improvement, using the stand I bought upon others' advice.

Would you consider using the Bellari for one, or more, songs you record on the Acoustic Guitar Traveling Tape?

I find incrememtal improvements are easier to quantify than a wholesale change to my existing system.

Nando.

 

[laatsch55]

It very well may have Nando. Ive heard the C-72 has an excellent phono stage.

 

[Pure_Brew]

Hmm I thought I used it on the last tape? Maybe not. I could certainly use it, I plan on it actually. I could make comparisons on another tape as well, however, precise level matching will yield some difficulty without the proper measurement and technique. There's a lot to be said for level matching. Reminds me of comparing sources that have a slightly higher gain. People will automatically be drawn to the slightly higher volume and check it off as better performance and attribute it to other things.

By the way I just tried to do 1 more really quick a/b. Using "know what I mean" Cannonball Adderly with Bill Evans, I lifted the tone arm and swapped off the Bellari back to the pioneer. It still sounds a bit flatter to me, but the tone is still rich and enjoyable. Honestly, having Cannonballs' horn not jumping out at me quite as much is just fine.

Then... Back to drums. Hmmm... Hard to say. The pioneer catches my attention there. Might be worth a tube roll revisit, but in doing so I'm pretty sure that bass definition wont improve from the 12AX7LPS, remembering swaps I've done in the past.

This still makes me think that the pioneer is worth hanging onto, but it likely needs to be overhauled. Nice vintage piece of gear.

 

[laatsch55]

It will be a toally different animal wth a recap and Power supply rebuld. Newer trannies in certain points also help. I would think the Poneer is operating under a severe handicap if its original, and stil holding it's own-----HMMMMMMMMMM...........

 

[Pure_Brew]

I know right? Lol.

Know who could I trust to do all that, and possibly, fix... The TUNER!?

 

[Elite-ist]

It very well may have Nando. Ive heard the C-72 has an excellent phono stage.

You probably heard it from me. You know how I like to pump the Pioneer stuff.

Nando.

 

[Elite-ist]

Hmm I thought I used it on the last tape? Maybe not. I could certainly use it, I plan on it actually. I could make comparisons on another tape as well, however, precise level matching will yield some difficulty without the proper measurement and technique. There's a lot to be said for level matching. Reminds me of comparing sources that have a slightly higher gain. People will automatically be drawn to the slightly higher volume and check it off as better performance and attribute it to other things.

By the way I just tried to do 1 more really quick a/b. Using "know what I mean" Cannonball Adderly with Bill Evans, I lifted the tone arm and swapped off the Bellari back to the pioneer. It still sounds a bit flatter to me, but the tone is still rich and enjoyable. Honestly, having Cannonballs' horn not jumping out at me quite as much is just fine.

Then... Back to drums. Hmmm... Hard to say. The pioneer catches my attention there. Might be worth a tube roll revisit, but in doing so I'm pretty sure that bass definition wont improve from the 12AX7LPS, remembering swaps I've done in the past.

This still makes me think that the pioneer is worth hanging onto, but it likely needs to be overhauled. Nice vintage piece of gear.

Joe: This was the equipment you used in the mix tape you sent me. I don't think you had the Bellari, quite yet.

Technics SL-23/AT440mla (turntable/cartridge)
Marantz CD5004 (cd player)
Denon DAP-2500 (preamp, phono stage, tape in/out)
Nakamichi CR1A (cassette deck)

Monitoring
Jolida 502brc (preamp stage in bypass mode)
Snell CIV (speakers)
Pioneer CTF9191(cassette playback)

Interconnects
Various Monster
Radio Shack, lamp-cord style speaker wire.

If you like, maybe the next mix tape swap we do can be all recorded from vinyl. I just completed an all vinyl mix tape a little more than a week ago for a friend. And I taped it on one of the premium TDK MA-R60 tapes. I'm waiting to hear how it came out. He, only, just received it, as he lives in the UK.

Too bad your SX-1280 wasn't repaired. I agree with Lee: anything that old without a rebuild is doing admirably well.

Nando.

 

[laatsch55]

There are several who could do an excellent job. Mark the Fixer lives in Bensenville Illinois, would be my first choice. H has the savvy to fnd the parts, and the equipment. He is fighting sme health issues but when he's done with that I can ask him what his schedules is like. Really Joe, if the 1250 is still stock, oh man, you wouldn't believe the same piece could sound that different.