Piggy Banks........ Who get's it?

WOPL Sniffer

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#1
Does the average dude (or chick for that matter) get the fact that 40 year old output transistors are junk, and should not be trusted???????? Even if you run them on a transistor checker, it is NO Guarantee that they are going to handle the stresses of being inserted into a back plane of an amp that gets cranked on when the operator gets loopy on a Friday night. Transistor Checkers do not simulate real world conditions (serious amps are flowing through each output) and only tell you if the transistor is shorted or weak and gives you NO IDEA if the part is going to make the jump from 100ma to 3 amps or be able to handle the voltage swing from -80 vdc to +80 vdc????? These jerks on ebay who sell 40 year old transistors should not be trusted. You are throwing your money out the window. Sure, we have die hard's who want to keep their amps as they came from the factory, and on the other hand, we have dudes who are too broke to buy new fresh replacements but the results are the same in the end. The 40 year old transistors are junk..... Plain and simple. They were not made to last forever. They have a limited life (as do all electronic components) and you don't know what their history is so it's a dumb crap shoot trusting your amp to NOT catch on fire and burn your house down. If you don't have the money to do it, make do with a cheap Yamaha Receiver and place a tip jar on a speaker and do what we used to do in the old days and SAVE FOR A RAINY DAY!!!! Remember when we used to squirrel our quarters away from mowing lawns in the summer to buy that new Transistor Radio from the Five and Dime??? Or a new Huffy Bicycle with the banana seat???? If you haven't learned from the Pages and Sages of this web site, that scrimping and rigoneering shit to get it to work is a waste of time and worse yet, A waste of good money. Get a piggy bank and save for those shiny new output transistors or White Oak Audio Design Circuit Boards. Get a piggy Bank, and save for the Huffy Bike. Get a Piggy Bank and save for your yearly trip to the hookers because even old hookers are a "crap shoot" (and I do mean CRAP SHOOT). Not that there is such a thing as a new hooker but you get my point. I have boxes full of old transistors and yeah, I could sell them to goof balls on the internet but I don't. I do offer from time to time, the old circuit boards out of 700's but I advertise them as needing restoration..... i.e. NEW PARTS

Don't take it in the shorts (no pun intended) of buying or using 40 year old electronics parts......... You risk life and limb buy doing so..... Burning down your house is a bad thing to do when you are passed out in your recliner. When you hear "Flame Linear" from anybody,it shows they don't know shit..... Those output transistor blew up when they were put through stresses of chuckle heads who thought a Home Stereo was a good idea for use as a tool for rock bands wanting to entertain 20,000 people and make their ears bleed (cool Huh???) So, you just bought a pile of 40 year old transistors for use in your new partial WOPL project, they gave up the ghost and smoked your new $200 circuit board..... All I got's to say is..... ah, never mind.... But bonehead does come to mind..... The Control Board is not what I would upgrade first if I was trying to cheese out..... It would be the back planes and output transistors.... That's where the "Rubber Meets The Road" and where all that current is flowing, which is the main cause of electronics melt-downs... When is the last time you saw a crystal radio blow up??? You know why??? There isnt shit for current flow and no output transistors using enough current to weld the frame on an old car. Or better yet...... GET A PIGGY BANK so you can do it all at once when you get enough money...... You didn't go to the five and dime and buy a pedal to build a bicycle, you saved till you had enough to buy the whole fucking bike...... I give a full lifetime warranty on my amps because I trust my work, and the new components I use to build them. I don't do partial upgrades for my customers because the old junk mixed with the new junk is a recipe for disaster...... I'm a big dummy and even I know that the old shit I just put into a partially rebuilt amp IS GOING TO BLOW THE HELL UP sooner or later and would be a losing proposition. Let alone giving myself a bad name because every amp I build let a cloud of smoke out the top big enough to choke a horse... That half upgraded amp IS going to fail.... Just do some reading. As a proud builder of a hundred WOPL amps, I know what I am taking about... or....... Maybe not.

Yep, I know that everybody here may not have the money to build a Fresh amp but I also know that the same people DO have enough to buy a Piggy Bank...

This one is only 12 bucks on ebay



Piggy bank.jpg
 
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orange

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#3
Kermit must be devastated, and with a member of Judas Pig.
 

WOPL Sniffer

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#4
If I can save one dude a headache and a dollar, it's worth it. Proper planning is everything in getting the old stuff up to snuff. When you restore a car, you don't start with new battery. The back planes and outputs is the smartest bet when doing it over time.
 

Wheel-right

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#5
Does the average dude (or chick for that matter) get the fact that 40 year old output transistors are junk, and should not be trusted???????? Even if you run them on a transistor checker, it is NO Guarantee that they are going to handle the stresses of being inserted into a back plane of an amp that gets cranked on when the operator gets loopy on a Friday night. Transistor Checkers do not simulate real world conditions (serious amps are flowing through each output) and only tell you if the transistor is shorted or weak and gives you NO IDEA if the part is going to make the jump from 100ma to 3 amps or be able to handle the voltage swing from -80 vdc to +80 vdc????? These jerks on ebay who sell 40 year old transistors should not be trusted. You are throwing your money out the window. Sure, we have die hard's who want to keep their amps as they came from the factory, and on the other hand, we have dudes who are too broke to buy new fresh replacements but the results are the same in the end. The 40 year old transistors are junk..... Plain and simple. They were not made to last forever. They have a limited life (as do all electronic components) and you don't know what their history is so it's a dumb crap shoot trusting your amp to NOT catch on fire and burn your house down. If you don't have the money to do it, make do with a cheap Yamaha Receiver and place a tip jar on a speaker and do what we used to do in the old days and SAVE FOR A RAINY DAY!!!! Remember when we used to squirrel our quarters away from mowing lawns in the summer to buy that new Transistor Radio from the Five and Dime??? Or a new Huffy Bicycle with the banana seat???? If you haven't learned from the Pages and Sages of this web site, that scrimping and rigoneering shit to get it to work is a waste of time and worse yet, A waste of good money. Get a piggy bank and save for those shiny new output transistors or Whits Oak Audio Design Circuit Boards. Get a piggy Bank, and save for the Huffy Bike. Get a Piggy Bank and save for your yearly trip to the hookers because even old hookers are a "crap shoot" (and I do mean CRAP SHOOT). Not that their is such a thing as a new hooker but you get my point. I have boxes full of old transistors and yeah, I could sell them to goof balls on the internet but I don't. I do offer from time to time, the old circuit boards out of 700's but I advertise them as needing restoration..... i.e. NEW PARTS

Don't take it in the shorts (no pun intended) of buying or using 40 year old electronics parts......... You risk life and limb buy doing so..... Burning down your house is a bad thing to do when you are passed out in your recliner. When you hear "Flame Linear" from anybody,it shows they don't know shit..... Those output transistor blew up when they were put through stresses of chuckle heads who thought a Home Stereo was a good idea for use as a tool for rock bands wanting to entertain 20,000 people and make their ears bleed (cool Huh???) So, you just bought a pile of 40 year old transistors for use in your new partial WOPL project, they gave up the ghost and smoked your new $200 circuit board..... All I got's to say is..... ah, never mind.... But bonehead does come to mind..... The Control Board is not what I would upgrade first if I was trying to cheese out..... It would be the back planes and output transistors.... That's where the "Rubber Meets The Road" and where all that current is flowing, which is the main cause of electronics melt-downs... When is the last time you saw a crystal radio blow up??? You know why??? There isnt shit for current flow and no output transistors using enough current to weld the frame on an old car. Or better yet...... GET A PIGGY BANK so you can do it all at once when you get enough money...... You didn't go to the five and dime and buy a pedal to build a bicycle, you saved till you had enough to buy the whole fucking bike...... I give a full lifetime warranty on my amps because I trust my work, and the new components I use to build them. I don't do partial upgrades for my customers because the old junk mixed with the new junk is a recipe for disaster...... I'm a big dummy and even I know that the old shit I just put into a partially rebuilt amp IS GOING TO BLOW THE HELL UP sooner or later and would be a losing proposition. Let alone giving myself a bad name because every amp I build let a cloud of smoke out the top big enough to choke a horse... That half upgraded amp IS going to fail.... Just do some reading. As a proud builder of a hundred WOPL amps, I know what I am taking about... or....... Maybe not.

Yep, I know that everybody here may not have the money to build a Fresh amp but I also know that the same people DO have enough to buy a Piggy Bank...

This one is only 12 bucks on ebay



View attachment 36674
Excellent Sunday Sermon, I'm convinced. So far I've never seen anyone question your knowledge or abilities of PL Amp building, I for sure wouldn't. I've also seen "tested" original capacitors being listed and maybe there are foolish enough people who buy them, good luck on those pieces too.
Now have a nice relaxing Sunday, smoke a bowl full and stay cool. Extremely appreciate what you contribute for all of us, thanks again.
 

orange

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#6
May have been Dr. Strangepork from Animal Hospital, come to think of it.
 

MarkWComer

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#7
If I can save one dude a headache and a dollar, it's worth it. Proper planning is everything in getting the old stuff up to snuff. When you restore a car, you don't start with new battery. The back planes and outputs is the smartest bet when doing it over time.
The backplanes don’t support quasi, do they (moot point, so don’t shoot me!)?
But I also don’t see the point in refurbing a PL36 to accommodate the new backplanes, either.

Perhaps the backplanes and control circuits should be sold by WO as a bundled upgrade and not individually, or the control circuits sold ONLY to known backplane builders due to upgrades. If backplanes are sold, perhaps the outputs should be a bundled package with those circuits.

(Joe makes a VooDoo doll with my face on it...)

And I’m one of those who did my 400/II control circuit before the backplane kit, but God watched over me- no house fire! I did have an output failure, but that was after the complete rebuild, nothing to do with aged xsistors.
 
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WOPL Sniffer

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#8
Why would you build a quasi amp if you are building a WOPL??? And the point of the thread is saving for a total build and doing it all at once. Joe has all the parts including Output Transistors. Full Comp is the only way to go. There is NO benefit to building half an amp.
 

WOPL Sniffer

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I'm sure Joe would put a package together ( I buy Full packages all the time) but then you have to come up with more money. With the Piggy Bank method, start saving, in July you buy back planes and start your piggy bank fund again... Mow 100 more lawns, and in December you buy the outputs, then mow 75 more lawns and in April you buy the control board..... That's what I was talking about. Then you have the parts to do your TOTAL upgrade. Bundling can be done but is not the point
 

WOPL Sniffer

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#11
In a year, you have enough to build a bad ass wopl that will last you the rest of your life and you don't have to monkey around with repairing it in between piecemeal partial repairs.
 

Gepetto

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#12
Earlier backplane revisions did support quasi but frankly I was the only one that ever built ONE SET that way, and that was for test purposes only, to ensure it worked. With that market lesson learned, later revisions focused only on full comp and circuit improvements gained by not having to support both configurations and using the space that freed up wisely.

No voodoo dolls Mark, the bundle is left to the user as a choice (buying both equals a bundle). I firmly believe in choice because some folks choose to budget their time and dollars as appropriate for them. Doing the backplanes is a serious commitment as you know well. I always describe it as you need nerves of steel to tackle that task.

With that said, 90+% of all PL amp problems are on the backwall and Perry is spot on in what he posted (and humorous as well).
 

Bradrock

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#13
I don't have a piggy bank ( Never got over catching my dad robbing mine for beer money)
But I do have 100 or so firearms & parts kits secured away that come in real handy for emergency funds. And the increase in value over the years is WAY better than savings acct. interest!
I think that with living in the wilderness I need another WOPL for backup. Withdrawels would be torture once exposed to audio bliss.
I already keep a spare new desktop pc & modem on hand for same reason.
Does that make me a 'prepper'???
 

WOPL Sniffer

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#14
Hey Brad, I robbed my own for beer money WAY to often. That's why it took me 5 years to build my own from the ground up..... But it was worth the wait and while i was waiting, i relied on my $35 Yamaha receiver off the bay..... That included shipping.... WTF???
 

Bradrock

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#15
I like buying shit that I can enjoy & play with for a few years & then sell for a nice profit.
When in Florida I bought 30-40 NIB Scalextrix? 1/32 slot cars. Looked great on display shelving in the living room.
After a few short years I sold them all for 3 times what I paid. Ebay can be great if you have an eye for things sure to increase in value & I seem to have a knack for that. Guns are pretty much automatic. Never see the prices going down.
 

MarkWComer

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#16
Why would you build a quasi amp if you are building a WOPL??? And the point of the thread is saving for a total build and doing it all at once.
Yes, I got your point, understand your point, and threw it away with my post.
Sorry ‘bout that...

And that’s what I’m doing now. Took out a bank loan last year for a new computer, 700/II from ebay, and bought bunches of stuff from Joe bit by bit.

Displaying my ignorance once again, sorry.
 

WOPL Sniffer

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#17
Yes, I got your point, understand your point, and threw it away with my post.
Sorry ‘bout that...

And that’s what I’m doing now. Took out a bank loan last year for a new computer, 700/II from ebay, and bought bunches of stuff from Joe bit by bit.

Displaying my ignorance once again, sorry.

I feel your pain Mark. I'm still paying (my credit card) for the 2 pallets of Phase Linear Clair amps from Audio Honolulu several years ago...... That problem could NOT be solved by a piggy bank :)
 
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