Phase Linear 700B as a Daily Driver?

Michael F

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#1
I`ve lusted after one of these for many a decade. The 700B has been on my "must have list" for the longest time now but unfortunately, finding a unit in decent condition and at a rational price has proved to be a difficult endeavor. It is the last amp to be crossed off a list that includes other major players such as Crown, BGW and Yamaha, but has proved to be the most elusive, until now. I just had the good fortune to score a near NOS, one owner 700B complete wooden sleeve, owners and service manuals, sales brochures along with original packaging. :icon_smile:
I`d normally be a little apprehensive in placing any piece of electronic equipment of that vintage into a regular routine but even more so with a PL. Not to insult any owners , there is no denying the bad press some of these amps get given their tendency for going Supernova and taking out all connected speakers as a bonus
Why is that? Is it an inherently unstable design, a bad component choice and implementation or does it just have difficulty coping with difficult loads (below 8R) or were they put into applications they were never intended for? Was this more a 400 or 700 issue?
Many Sound Reinforcement companies and recording studios used these amps back in the day as they were more powerful than anything else that was available at the time, so they couldn't have been that bad. Potential reliability issues aside, there must be something positive said with regards to their fidelity for them to be as popular as they were/are.

I suppose some kind of load protection can be integrated to minimize the consequences of a catastrophic failure but avoiding those issues altogether would be ideal if at all possible.

Are replacement parts readily available or are some unobtainable?

That said, I`d love to hear from current and past owners of such beasts and their experiences, good, bad or ugly
along with any advice pertaining to preventive maintenance, operating guidelines etc. Im really wanting to like this amp. I hope the sonic's and performance match its coolness factor. It will be driving a pair of JBL L112 btw, a stable and efficient load. Anxiously looking forward to it`s arrival and your replies!
 

NavLinear

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#2
You've found the Phase Linear nirvana. There are some killer upgrades, new grounding schemes and other mods that dramatically improve the overall sound that you should like. There's a DC protect circuit that can be added to keep from damaging speakers if a malfunction occurs. The PL amps got a bad rap from being used in a commercial application - they were designed for home use but they kicked ass with the output wattage a number of big name bands used them to drive their speaks at concerts. Hence the name flame linear - too bad the name stuck.

I've had a PL 400 since the mid 70's and have run it hard with no problems. I now have a two more 400's and a PL 700 that has not been upgraded but will be in the future. Read up in some of the forums here to get an idea of what one can do to improve these amps - there are several of 'em going through a metamorphosis in a couple of threads here.

Glad you made it here - watch out for that Laatsch dude though! :confused2: :laughing9:
 

laatsch55

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#3
Welcome to Phoenix Michael F

Mike, there is nothing unobtanium on the 400's, 700, 700B's, or 700 Ser II, EXCEPT...meters and faceplates. There are even new driver boards from White Oak Audio that puts the 700 up against anything made today. The Flame Linear moniker was justified, if went balls to the walls into 4 ohms, the heat sinking was woefully inadequate. A cheap pair of fans would have stopped 90% of that. I've built some copper heatsinks for my 400 and 2 of Ed Blackwoods 700B's., the difference was rather dramatic. Most other amp builders of that day had a DC protect system that kept DC rail voltage from going to the speaker outs when an output shorts. There has recently been some aftermarket DC protect relay boards, THEY WORK, AND WORK WELL.
Pink Floyd loved their 700s and D500's. They also remounted them in cabinets of 2 with extra supprt for the transformer and an ice cube chute to throw dry ice on the heatsink fins. Between 2-3 THOUSand pounds of dry ice per show.
Stock 700's would clip between 425-450. With the new board and a hot transformer, we are now getting 480-525 per channel into 8 ohms and crystal clear. I have owned a Spec system for 35 years, the Spec 2 was the alpha dog around here for a couple generations, both Spec 2's are now pulling back up duty.

It is a property of this type of design to throw Rail voltage to the speaker outs when an output shorts. They ARE NOT inherenbtly unstable, it takes a little work to get em that way...

Joseph King, owner of White Oak Audio Design posts here as Gepetto. Joe has put a lot of enineering work into putting all those shortcomings into history, and man has he succeeded , frequency response only down .12 DB at 10 hz, down 1.34 db at 80Khz----Unweighted.... noise floors down to 200 MICRO volts...stereo sep in the 90 db range THD & N, half what it was, etc. Check out a few of the restore threads, they'll answer most of your questions, but post away, we never tire of braggin em up.
 

laatsch55

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#4
And I must add, NavLinear has many astray to the dark side......
 

Gibsonian

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#6
Daily driver - you bet. I've used stock units and also the upgraded 700's for that for about 10 yrs. Upgraded with the latest improvements is the way to go for best sound quality, reliability, and speaker protection. They are my best sounding amps and have sent some fine amps down the road. I recommend fans though if you use the full voltage range like I do. Low impedance - 4 ohms is no problem, even using them wide open but you must have fans for cooling. I have run them also under 2 ohms but only at fairly low volumes, so cannot recommend below 4 ohms with confidence.
 

Michael F

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#7
Looks like the answer to my question is a resounding YES! That is very encouraging. It`s good to know that people are still running these amps without issue nearly four decades after conception with a number of mods and upgrades available. I think I`ll just listen to it for a while once it arrives to get a good feel for it`s character. I would however like to run an output relay, just to be safe as I value my old JBL`s dearly so if someone can recommend a kit, by all means do so. When it does arrive, I`ll likely pop open the hood just to ensure nothing worked itself loose in transit. Would ramping it up slowly through a variac or dim bulb tester be a good idea? What other precautionary measures should be taken? Thanks to all that have responded.
 
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#8
If my own avatar is any indication to you, let me say this. I was not even BORN when this amp came out. And yet, in 2013, with all the new and fancy electronic gear on today's market, you just cannot beat a Phase Linear 700B. Possibly the most beautiful amplifier I have ever seen, heard or owned. And people ask why I have nearly 40 year old amps in a rack with new technology? The Phase Linear 700B speaks for itself. I am currently having these wonderful amps upgraded to produce even more stunning performance thanks to the mods and admins here. Check out some of the threads on it. This is a wonderful place to be amongst Phase Phriends. They work on striving for excellence with these amps as a labor of love over profit and it shows. We are all very Phanatical about our Phase Linear's. But one piece of advice.........watch out for that NAV guy.........
 

Gibsonian

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#9
Looks like the answer to my question is a resounding YES! That is very encouraging. It`s good to know that people are still running these amps without issue nearly four decades after conception with a number of mods and upgrades available. I think I`ll just listen to it for a while once it arrives to get a good feel for it`s character. I would however like to run an output relay, just to be safe as I value my old JBL`s dearly so if someone can recommend a kit, by all means do so. When it does arrive, I`ll likely pop open the hood just to ensure nothing worked itself loose in transit. Would ramping it up slowly through a variac or dim bulb tester be a good idea? What other precautionary measures should be taken? Thanks to all that have responded.[/QUOTE

Not sure what you bought, but yes, bringing it up with variac would be a good idea. If you are going to use it before adding in the dc protect circuit you will want to fuse your speakers. 1.5 to 3.0 amp fast blow will work. I used fuses to protect my speakers prior to the last year and through several "incidents" so they will do the job, though not as well as the dc protect circuit. I would also check DC across your outputs before ever hooking up a speaker to the amp as well. Best idea of all is to have it completely serviced and WO'd prior to very much hard listening.
 

kevin

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#10
Welcome Michael ! You just have no idea what a great site AND bunch of guys you have found !!! Your in for a treat ! these guys know more about these amps than the people that built them !!!!! LOL.... The Lee guy...... I really believe he could build one while sleeping !!!!
 

laatsch55

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Welcome Michael ! You just have no idea what a great site AND bunch of guys you have found !!! Your in for a treat ! these guys know more about these amps than the people that built them !!!!! LOL.... The Lee guy...... I really believe he could build one while sleeping !!!!
DUDE, I am sleeping when I build one!!
 

Michael F

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#13
IT`S HERE!

A week and 3000kms later the amp arrived safe and sound, and what a beaut she is. The original owners description of the unit was accurate, mint condition, really.. It`s seen very little use over the decades and spent it`s entire lifetime housed in the wooden sleeve (also in very good condition) and it shows. A look inside reveals a most pristine nearly sterile interior free of any dirt or dust. It`s easier to imagine it rolling off the assembly line yesterday and not 40 years ago. Following the visual inspection, came the Dim Bulb Test, crossed my fingers and fired her up. Bulb dims, YES! Output DC voltage test came in at .041 and .066. Not sure if that falls within spec but I patched my guinea pig JBL S38`s and inline 1.5 amp fastblows to see if it`s outputting a sine wave, and boy is it ever.. I`ll reserve final judgement after I spend some time driving the L 112s but it`s hard not to notice how much torque this thing has. It didn't take much effort to get the lowly JBLs to beg for mercy. I had no idea this thing is capable of 450 and 730 wpc into 8 and 4 ohms respectively. I was surprised it was even 4 ohm rated. That is an impressive amount of power. Even if it is a single channel driven spec, that power needs to be managed responsibly. I wish my dummy load could handle more than it`s rated 225 watts, I`d love to see what it can do balls out. At this point, I need to put a load protection circuit online in order to get a better idea of what the amp is like driving the main speakers. I`m leaning towards Don`s kit as it seems well engineered and is model specific. Next on the list would be a lighting upgrade. While all but one lamp illuminate, I find the display a little dim. I welcome any and all suggestions or recommendations that will help get the most out of this amp. TIA http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i96/Michael_Fedenko/IMG_00000126.jpg
 

laatsch55

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#14
Post-White Oaked we have many doing over 500 rms into 8 with both channels loaded and driven, monsters...




THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICS!!!!!!!!!
 

laatsch55

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#16
I welcome any and all suggestions or recommendations that will help get the most out of this amp. TIA




Read any build thread on a 700, tons of info....
 

laatsch55

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#17
The DC offset is a little high. We like to see um .010 or less. factory said do something when it hit .075.
 

Michael F

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#18
Post-White Oaked we have many doing over 500 rms into 8 with both channels loaded and driven, monsters...




THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICS!!!!!!!!!
I`m afraid I haven't met the minimum post count to be able to post pics, I`ll upload some more to Photobucket in the meantime.
 

orange

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#19
I was unaware there was such a thing. Jbeckva and others have posted photoposting tips and you may need to changer the settings for composition from WYSIWYG to Expanded in the Control Panel *or the opposite...it sounds like a settings issue.

BTW what is the format of the file you are trying to post? Allowed formats are listed in the editor window.
 
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