ONIX CD-15

laatsch55

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Got it from Angel City Audio today. I am very tickled. Better bass response and ---smoother on the higher stuff. I'm glad I still had this remarkable Spec 2 here as I believe it takes some ancilllary equipment in the excellent range to actually hear a difference, but a difference there is.

Thanks Hugh.
 

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speakerman1

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#2
laatsch55 said:
Got it from Angel City Audio today. I am very tickled. Better bass response and ---smoother on the higher stuff. I'm glad I still had this remarkable Spec 2 here as I believe it takes some ancilllary equipment in the excellent range to actually hear a difference, but a difference there is.

Thanks Hugh.
Do you really think it wouldn't sound better hooked to different equipment then the other Onix CDP?

Larry
 

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#4
speakerman1 said:
laatsch55 said:
Got it from Angel City Audio today. I am very tickled. Better bass response and ---smoother on the higher stuff. I'm glad I still had this remarkable Spec 2 here as I believe it takes some ancilllary equipment in the excellent range to actually hear a difference, but a difference there is.

Thanks Hugh.
Do you really think it wouldn't sound better hooked to different equipment then the other Onix CDP?

Larry

I got gold ears to stand around the corner, played the CD-1 on the Spec 1 and 2 of Chris's. Then I played the CD-15 , she knew right away it was different, and in this case better. And what I meant by having it sound better because the associated equipment was good was just that I think we are getting to the point in the system that to hear changes for the better the rest of the stuff needs to be pretty damn good too. IE-bass response, in a stock 700 I would not have noticed the better bass response because it would not have been reproduced, in the newly overhauled Spec 2 it was able to reproduce it if it was there, and it was, not by staggering amounts, but noticeable. And certain higher frequencies seemed----more there--or real.
 

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In my findings. It is the transparency that starts kicking in. Right now I'm listening to the Micro TT with the Bellari hooked to it. For volume control. I also use the Shanling because it has a variable output. The Oppo DVD does also. I have the Shanling and Micro hooked to the Csrys. I just swap ICs back and forth. They aren't in a tower. I can do that by just doing it. I don't have to do a bunch of moving. I still have to put the Euro tower together with the new bottom I have. There is no preamp involved.

Larry
 

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#9
True, regardless, you have too much invested in that not to at least see if it helps.
 

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#10
I can handle moving the leads on 2 components sitting where I can reach with no trouble. If I want to add a 3rd that would be more of a pain. LOL

Larry
 

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#11
Lee..In your experience, how much difference is there in the quality of the D/A conversion process in the CD-10 and CD-15? ARe the opamps the same or different? Different specs show them being the same in some cases and different on others. I think the CD-10 sounds fantastic, and can't imagine ANYTHING could sound better, but wondering if there are any upgrades which could be done. I would rather "upgrade" the CD-3 but don't know the possibilities. Are the opamps in the CD-3 replaceable without a big process? Are they soldered in? Could the Brown Dogs be used to upgrade the CD-3 to perhaps even better than the CD-10? I know Kevin would be interested too, if there is anything we could do to improve the already great sound. I would have never imagined it could be bettered until I listened to the CD-10. Now I wonder what the top end Onix can do? Or even the CD-15....
 

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#12
"Brown-Dog" is the name of the company that makes op-amp adapters. To see if the CD-3 could be upgraded pull the top and see what number and make the op-amps are. They'll be 8 pin DIP's. On the right hand side of the unit with the top off there should be 4 or 8 op-amps. If I remember right they were Burr-Browns. In that case that's as good as it gets.
Op-amps do not change the sampling rate, just the quality of the sound after the conversion back to analog.
The op-amps in the CD-3 are in sockets, no soldering involved.
 

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#13
OK..assuming they are Burr Brown op amps....aren't there perhaps BETTER op amps available which might improve the quality of the sound? I'm guessing that the state of the art op amp from 2007 might have been bettered in the last 5 or so years.

I understand about the sampling rate and all. I'm just wondering if the top of the line Burr Brown, or other makers, might have a newer, better sounding op amp which could replace the 4 or 8 in the unit. Maybe not, but I know you have upgradeed the op amps in the Phas Linear 3300 as an example
Plus, I'm getting distortion in playback in the right channel of my system. Noticed it late yesterday. I need to track it down to determine if it is the Onix, my pre-amp, the amp, or exactly where the distortion is coming from...

I'll pull the cover off the Onix and see what I can find out...How many op amps and what maker and part number. Can you or Joe or MNark tell me what might be a better device to put in their places?
 

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#15
An article I found while looking for possible upgrades....I posted a few other links at the bottom of this post as well. Very interesting subject matter. Now I just have to see what we have in the CD-3 so we can research further. I will need your help Lee, in determining the best choice, or choices based on the technical side as opposed to the personal preference side of the equation. What do you think? Worth the effort?

Upgrading Op Amps in Audio Equipment

Precision Amplifier Wiki

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We periodically get requests for recommendations on the “best audio op amp†to upgrade op amps that a user may find in their amplifier, receiver, mixing console, microphone preamp or other audio equipment. Some comments, first:

There is no one “best audio op amp.†TI makes a number of outstanding op amps optimized for audio applications. The very best for one circuit application or equipment can may be a very bad choice for another. It requires an understanding of circuit and application details to determine what might be a best-choice op amp for a given situation or equipment.

Even after making a best choice, there are hazards in substituting op amps into existing equipment. Op amps have quirks. The circuits in your equipment may optimize the behavior of the op that is currently installed. The circuit may not be optimum or operate properly with a newer, higher performance op amp. Differences in bandwidth, phase compensation, input bias current, input capacitance, output drive capability, quiescent current, operating voltage… many factors can cause a much better op amp to perform poorly. The substituted op amp may oscillate or even fail in a circuit that was designed or optimized for another op amp.

With that said, audio enthusiast will do what they do. The recommendations below may increase your chance of success. Not all these substitutions are easy. Some may involve adapting to smaller, more modern package types. These physical adaptations can, in some circuits, cause problems such as oscillations.

Substitute at your own risk. We will not be responsible for damaged equipment, including ears. Test carefully before connecting speakers. And if you don’t like the result, don’t assume that the new op amp is actually inferior to the old one. We are not able to help further with your project. It requires circuit diagrams and hands-on testing to optimize a circuit or even determine that it is operating properly.

Note that all listings below substitute a FET op amp for another FET op amp or bipolar for bipolar. While it may be possible, there is a greater possibility of compromised performance when substituting a FET for bipolar or vice versa.

OPA627 >> OPA827 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

OPA134 >> OPA1641 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.


OPA2134 >> OPA1642 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.


OPA4134 >> OPA1644 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

OPA604 >> OPA1641 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

OPA2604 >> OPA1642 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

MC33078 >> OPA209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

NE5532 >> OPA2209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

RC4580 >> OPA2209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

RC4560 >> OPA2209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

RC4558 >> OPA2209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

MC33079 >> OPA4209* Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

TL072 >> OPA1642 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

TL074 >> OPA1644 Lower noise and distortion. Wider GBW, lower quiescent current. Not available in DIP package version.

AD797 >> OPA1611 Lower quiescent current, more stable, better general behavior. Note that circuits using the AD797 tend to be more specialized, requiring more circuit optimization. Substitution is often much more difficult. Do not be beguiled by the very low noise of these op amps. Use them in circuits designed for other op amps and you will get higher noise.

LT1028 >> OPA1611 Lower quiescent current, more stable, better general behavior. Note that circuits using the AD797 tend to be more specialized, requiring more circuit optimization. Substitution is often much more difficult. Do not be beguiled by the very low noise of these op amps. If you use them in circuits designed for other op amps and you may easily get higher noise. Beware of operating voltage. LT1028 can be operated a somewhat higher voltage than the OPA1611.

* Version optimized for high performance audio applications planned for June 2011 release.



http://audioreviews.blogspot.com/2005/1 ... -amps.html

http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html ;

And this one:

http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1976
 

ksrigg

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#17
Another person's take on op amps from about a year ago...

I agree with the opinion that "performance levels of the TL072/82 and the 5534 to be sub standards when compared to the current generation of high performance OP AMPs. My top three devices for serious analog audio work are LME49990, OPA1611 and OPA211. LME49990 is the only one capable of true 24-bit analog performance when powered with +/- 15 V supply (S(N = 159 dB,THD = 146 dB). As the THD of LT1028 is 96 dB, it is "only" good for 16-bit systems. NE5534A is even less linear, THD = 93 dB.

And Simon says...

I would say LME4562 is the best op-amp I've heard for little money. Exceedingly neutral and clean, it won't flatter bright systems or headphones. The "HA" suffixed metal can version is noticeably better but costs a lot more.



At least one commercial product uses the 4562 or equivalent and sounds well for it IMO: http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/hpa100.shtml



Partner this op-amp with good decoupling capacitors.



I saw this page: http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/opamp.htm but frankly it's out of date. The OPA627 is easily surpassed by much cheaper op-amps these days. It's veiled and a bit coloured, though better than 2132/2134.



For adapters the name Brown Dog always springs to mind: http://cimarrontechnology.com/ - I'm sure there are UK distributors to be found if you look around the web.



Simon
and a 300 page opamp thread with some amazing stuff. Some people are really deep into this, and have really experimented with lots of possibilities for the various opamp functions in the particular component. It is WAY complicated, so maybe I am better off just leaving the damn thing alone.....but where is the fun in that? Plus I thought a few of you might be interested in this subject in that there has been discussion of opamps and Browndogs and such recently.
 

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#18
OK.... Cover off and located together in a row are U17, U18, U19 and U 20. Printed on the circuit board is OPA604.....and in the sockets we have OPA604 with the printing also of 5AAHDX7.. On another circuit board is U22 and it has printed OPA2604P. The printing on the Opamp is T. I. NE5532P and also 58AE69M.

All are easy to get to, and are just sockets. Easy to change the devices in those spots...

So, based on the sub list above I'd need from Mouser FOUR 595-OPA1644AIPW and ONE 595-OPA2209AID . But I am making assumptions that I am not qualified to make. I chose the more expensive of the choices presented on the Mouser search results, and used the suffix letter or number as well. So, Lee....Joe....am I safe using these, or have I chosen an incorrect part? I am willing to order them and give them a whirl. I wish I could make measurements to see if any changes can be qualified..Maybe I could record a before and after of the two......that assumes the CD-3 doesn't burst into flame or smoke up the house...
Any comments or suggestions?
 

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#19
Other than what you have posted above, nope, them fellers said it all. Sub a bjt with a bjt and check for oscillations.
 

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#20
I would not mess with the op-amps on the left side of that unit. Just the ones on the right towards the back.
 
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