Digital When did you see the light?

ksrigg said:
I'm not going to spend that kind of money for a DAC, I totally understand the law of diminishing returns. It would appear to me that "the best DAC" from maybe 5 years ago, which probably cost a grand, is about what is standard in the 29 dollar DVD player that WalMart is selling today. That is the problem. Stuff keeps getting better and better, and cheaper to make, so depending on where you jump in, you're going to get burnt..I don't know that I have bought a single NEW component or piece of audio gear in the last 15 years...Everything has been DIY components parts (or kits), vintage, used, refurbed, or been something I can upgrade....
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I have to disagree in part because really good electronics are still expensive. Law of diminishing returns aside, well built chassis and quality analog stages/power supplies are still expensive. DAC chips may have gotten more advanced and cheaper, but if the rest is trash it's still trash.

On the flip side I do agree and think you can get to a point rather quickly where extra money spent at times is just not worth it, and the used market is extremely desirable because you can stretch that dollar and get something special for less.

I think you really have to have a system that resolves differences in a meaningful way. Honestly I'd love to be able to drop big dollars on a CDP/Transport/DAC and be completely thrilled that I did. But that's not going to happen.

That's not to say that I can't appreciate finer audio. Last year I got to listen to an JMLabs/Esoteric system at Spearit Sound in Mass, which was likely in the $100k range, and I can tell you that listening to a system like that is like living a life half-blind and realizing that there is an invention like glasses. So when you put them on it's like - wow, I can see!

But most of us don't live in a world where we can have systems with absolute resolution without any noticeable tonal coloration at all. Or have that kind of money to spend.

So we make compromises. On a limited budget, I needed to have something to listen to that was fatigue free at the expense of resolution. $349 for a Marantz CD player fit that bill. It was the only thing near the price, new, that also didn't have a transport that I could hear across my small soundroom. I've flipped at least 3 dac's on it and got no real appreciable differences in my modest system.
 
Diminishing returns? What is it? If you have a system that that is the case you must have a very good system. I'm chomping at the bit to get this system in the living room. It is just like anything else it is all subjective. If you are worried about diminishing returns you have the wrong hobby. This hobby you have to go by your ears. You may try 10 DACs a find one that does it on your system. If you worry that much Walmart will be your friend.

Larry
 
If you flip 10 DAC's until you get the right one in your system, that is synergy. If you change any other components in the rest of the chain, there is a great possibilty that you could flip the same 10 DAC's and get a different result.
 
It all depends on what you are looking for. I have used 2 different makes of DACs in my life. Guess I was lucky that both did what I thought I was looking for. So I lucked out.

Larry
 
The first I ever heard a real step up in performance was in 95-96 when we had a California Audio Labs transport/dac in the store. Seemed to have this beautiful sound that's hard to describe as it was so long ago but it left an impression.
 
Pure_Brew said:
The first I ever heard a real step up in performance was in 95-96 when we had a California Audio Labs transport/dac in the store. Seemed to have this beautiful sound that's hard to describe as it was so long ago but it left an impression.
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Some of the Alchemy Acoustic guys are now at CAL.

I think you would drool over this Onix, LOL
Larry
 
Saw the light around 4 yrs ago. Also thought digital was digital. Found out it isn't, and it involves digital and analog. Have bought a couple DAC's and modded some players to improve CD playback and it has been well worth the trouble. As you likely know, CD playback can really stink. One thing I found out is all of my old dedicated CD players (and I had inexpensive ones since digital is digital) paled in comparison to even cheaper and very lightly built but newer DVD players for sound quality. The DAC had improved alot in 15 years. Then I discovered that my old records could sound so good and then was off on another tangent! Never ends.
 
Still look at CDs as nice sounding discs that sometime need a spa treatment to recover (NO HOT STONES)! I look at the titles and format (what do I have or what to acquire to play this for how many Roman coins-or Mario Bros coins) and I enjoy the novelty before b377267ing about the quality.
 
I have a new found respect for the format, after getting the most awesome Onix player into my system, and hearing tapes made from Jerry, *jbeckva* through his soundcard setup, it is progressing along quite well, I'll, never, ever give up on analog thru a nicely matched rig. you just can't get the vibe of a great analog recording thru digital and you can get a much nicer sounding playback from a digital recording redone through analog.
 
I hope someday to have as good of a demo on a high end system with vinyl as I have had with CD. Although in my own system, I have heard some really incredible sound on vinyl, enough so that I will likely invest more to it and keep my CD playback more modest. But typically, older vinyl pressings is where I get the best results. New/recent pressings are not always as good IMHO.

I like oranges approach too. I find enjoyment in other formats and the nostalgia around them (wind up victrola anyone?)
 
To me I don't look for shortcomings in either format. I'm hoping to bring a TT into the mix. Do some tweeking to find the best sound. My Cds sound good. Will see if my TT is up to the challenge.

Larry
 
I don't look for the shortcomings either on the formats. They just show up all on there own. But I do enjoy both formats more then I ever have before.
 
I "saw the light" last month when we got set up in the bedroom with a DVR for our smaller TV, and found that they both had only a digital optical output for the audio. I could see a red glow around the port. There was nothing to do but buy this teeny DAC from the local furniture/audio store, and ransack the house for a pair of optical cables I bought cheap at a garage sale years before. Rats - 404 - had to buy new. Sounds OK, though.
 
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