ATR MDS Cassette Issue

Bob Boyer

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#1
I so wanted to extol the virtues of this Type I cassette after recording the first half of one of my two 70s mixes onto side 1 of this new C-90 tape from ATR Magnetics. As you know, ATR's MDS-36 is my go-to open reel tape on the Revox where it can be flogged like a rented mule and it just keeps sounding better. I've learned to take a more conservative approach to recording levels on cassettes because, well, cassette. All that said, side one sounds great when recorded to +3 peaks on the Nakamichi using Dolby B. I was primarily monitoring the taped signal through my Beyer cans from the headphone amp in the Nak. Bias is dead nuts on - leave the dial on the 482Z at top dead center. A/B comparisons with the source are very, very close. Excellent high end, good bass slam, open sound. I need to compare to my Type II recordings and the one metal tape I have, but on preliominary listens, I'd say my search for a standard new cassette tape is over and I could quit hunting NOS.

Until we got to side two.

Started out fine, then 25-ish minutes in, I started hearing a very weird high-pitched distortion from Carlos Santana's over-driven guitar riffs during the Singing Winds, Crying Beasts intro to Black Magic Woman. The distortion continued, getting worse through Black Magic Woman, Marshall Tucker's 24 Hours At A Time and Leon Russell's Back To The Island. It is most notiecable on Back To The island as it is the quietest of those songs. I shut it off at that point. Upon rewinding the tape a bit and hitting play, I was treated to a mechanical squeal that accompanied the distortion. While the mechanical noise has disappeared, the noticeable distortion remains. Side 1 is fine through this same part of the tape, as well as at the corresponding distance in on side 1.

I think my plan is to ship it up to Jim and see what he can confirm from listening to it on his 122s while talking with ATR and re-recording the mix on the second tape I bought to see if I have a single tape anomaly or if there may be issues with the cases. I don't know. I'm playing Side 1 on the full system right now and it sounds great.
 

J!m

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#2
Hmmmm… Based on the description, I'd say the mechanical vibration ("squeal") was moving the tape during recording, causing change in the tape to head contact. One reason tape shell is important to cassettes.

I have some dead SA shells; after my initial listen, I could (time permitting) pack the tape into an SA shell and then you could try re-recording (or I could re-record side B) and send it back to you for further abuse.

I'll try to remember to include one of the SM10 cassettes as well. Super-cheap welded shell, but still sound great for some reason.
 

Bob Boyer

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#3
Well okay. Just rerecorded the entire file to the second new ATR cassette with no issues whatever. Tape has an extended high end or it might be I'm slightly off on the bias but there's a bit more "air up there" compared to the source file. Still great bass slam and a detailed midrange. Me likey. A lot.

So before I send the first tape up to Jim for a second set of ears, I'm going to record another file on it and see if it misbehaves in the same fashion, again. After hearing that squeal, I was thinking shell issues but the new cassette sounded fine while monitoring the playback signal on cans but muffled the first time I went to play it on the speakers. Stopped the tape, hit start again, and voila, great sound as described above. So I'm also adding the potential that I may still have some sort of tape path alignment instability issue in the Nak.

One last note at this point: actual running time on these two tapes is around 44:45 per side, just a hair short. It's not an issue for me, just something of which to be aware.
 

J!m

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#4
The time issue is interesting... In the old days, you usually ended up with about 15 seconds on the positive side.
 

Elite-ist

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#5
I don't remember ever having a C-90 tape that was short in time per side. Some manufacturers are known to be generous with extra time - some up to 45 seconds more per side on a C-90. Sony was one of them.

Nando.
 

Bob Boyer

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#6
I was a little surprised as well, guys. I'll check with the stopwatch again next pass.

On another note: I did a tape-ectomy and used an old SA-90 shell as a donor. Side B tape ended up as Side A in the shell so I ran a file for most of the length of Side A. Inconclusive, though much better over all. Trying to confirm a very slight scraping distortion with the headphones while monitoring the playback head during recording. It doesn't seem to show up when I take the deck out of record and play back what was just recorded. This behavior is around 35 minutes in on the tape. The sound was, again, great up to that point.
 
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Bob Boyer

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#8
Perfectly clean. Suspecting the Nak - or my sanity - at this point. Still have to call ATR about thier shell issues. Shall report back.
 

BlazeES

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#10
Sony's C90's tend to run 46+ to 47+ minutes per side. I've even had some Metal Masters come damn close to 48 minutes. The Denon's can also run a minute+ longer per side.
 

Bob Boyer

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#11
My Maxell's routinely run 46-ish per side. I'm gonna time it again just to double check but I'm betting 45 mins max. As I said, not a deal breaker for me especially now that I build the mix in the box first.

So I called ATR tis afternoon. Very nice lady answered the phone, was happy to hear that I'm using Nashville Recording Supply so we started on a good note. Very nice people; offered to ship a new cassette (or a box of new cassettes, actually) to me, no questions asked but had no other reports of shell issues of this kind. So I'm a little stumped but not enough to be too concerned.

Given the sound these are capable of, I think I've found my new current cassette. Still have a few Maxells thanks to the box I bought five years or so ago plus the few that Nando graciously sent my way but it's good to know I can easily access new cassettes at a decent price from reputable people. I grew weary of chasing NOS stuff on fleabay years ago.
 

J!m

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#12
I still keep an eye open for NOS TDK. They are plentiful, but prices being asked are keeping me from buying. Last ones I bought were used MA tapes (1985 vintage) for $10 each. Those are nice- recorded once and the couple I've used sound as good as the one I bought new and recently re-recorded.

I've seen NOS AR-X tapes for like $20 a pop. I don't know who buys them, but it sure isn't me!
 
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