PL400 Series 2 problems...maybe

[gene french]

just sayin...if the guy asks for help to fix his rig...why the bullying...why not just help...

 

[gene french]

Although the initial outlay may stretch some people’s budget, I can relate as I was there at one point, this amp once updated is one of the best performing amps for the dollar you will find.

Also, once fully updated by myself or others on this site, you will not find a better warranty…

with very few exceptions all of us have had budget restraints in our youth and even these days to a degree...
in its day...the 700/400 was one of the best performing amps for the dollar you could have found ....
wonder what the consumers will say about the updated amp in 50 years .... will it be considered junk too??? obsolete because the ugprade provider/tech is no longer here to support the warranty/product??? fire hazard??? toxic???
what would you tell your son who wants to rebuild his dads pride and joy in 40 or 50 years??
i guess its all in the perspective....

 

[George S.]

I think everyone here has the best of intentions.
But you know, each of the 3 amps I've WOPL'd have ranged from decently repaired to down right cluster fucked on opening them up.
And when someone new posts for the first time asking questions, well, what do I picture in my mind, you know it, a potential fire/shock hazard.
Let's revisit the PL300S2 I recently recapped.
And I can appreciate a properly repaired original spec amp such as Gene produces, or a full WOPL in all it's excessive awesomeness. Each has its place.

 

[gene french]

I think everyone here has the best of intentions.
But you know, each of the 3 amps I've WOPL'd have ranged from decently repaired to down right cluster fucked on opening them up.
And when someone new posts for the first time asking questions, well, what do I picture in my mind, you know it, a potential fire/shock hazard.
Let's revisit the PL300S2 I recently recapped.
And I can appreciate a properly repaired original spec amp such as Gene produces, or a full WOPL in all it's excessive awesomeness. Each has its place.

room for everybody!!!
no need to be upset because someone has different view....

 

[George S.]

Yup. We've got ranchers, oil men, military, engineers, truck drivers, retirees, all walks of life enjoying this hobby and love of music.

 

[gene french]

its all about the music ....right mr. george!!!
thats why we do this!!!

 

[mlucitt]

Another opinion (everyone has one): You will often spend an inordinate amount of time (time is money) chasing problems on an original Phase Linear control board. Then get frustrated with lifted solder traces, burned board, broken wires, ordering new parts, etc. Ask me how I know...

Sometimes it is just faster, easier, and better to replace the original defective obsolete control board when there is a much better WOA product available for not much money. The amplifier works better, still looks original, and will be reliable for a long time. No real downside?

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

everything has flaws...even the most expensive audio equipment using the best of parts can and will fail eventually...i have never seen lifetime warranties on any....these units were developed to put power in the average home that did not call for the home owner to refinance the house to own one...evidently successful as they are still in demand 50 years later ...
nostalgia....
some prefer it...
we all cant be ken fritz...if i got that name right...
ease up a bit...there are varying opinions and budgets and desires...
a little respect goes a long way....

The old junk can be dangerous to home and kats............ I'm not throwing the "Only I can afford the top shelf shit" in their face. I like the nostalgic LOOK of the PL, just not the nostalgic fire.

 

[gene french]

Another opinion (everyone has one): You will often spend an inordinate amount of time (time is money) chasing problems on an original Phase Linear control board. Then get frustrated with lifted solder traces, burned board, broken wires, ordering new parts, etc. Ask me how I know...

Sometimes it is just faster, easier, and better to replace the original defective obsolete control board when there is a much better WOA product available for not much money. The amplifier works better, still looks original, and will be reliable for a long time. No real downside?

true...however...
i am retired...making money on this hobby...not an issue...time... not an issue....i love the challenge...i dont know as much as the techs here or most of the members here for that matter...for me its a great learning experience and a chance to improve myself from the more knowledgable and experienced...for those willing to share...i would love to be able to produce work as beautiful as yours, joes, sniffs...etc...thats why i follow the threads...trying to improve...
restoring an vintage car is also a money pit...in terms of time and money...one does it for the love of the project...no doubt a wo upgrade is more developed product than the original...
again...progress is what thats called...ever changing technology...
one should have the right to upgrade...(i have two full compliment upgrades).....or restore an original...and not be bullied into what someone else thinks what is best for them....
i agree with your thoughts...thanks for expressing them...i appreciate your wisdom...and hope to learn from you....
please understand the right of the owner to proceed in the direction he desires...after hearing all of the pros and cons...

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

with very few exceptions all of us have had budget restraints in our youth and even these days to a degree...
in its day...the 700/400 was one of the best performing amps for the dollar you could have found ....
wonder what the consumers will say about the updated amp in 50 years .... will it be considered junk too??? obsolete because the ugprade provider/tech is no longer here to support the warranty/product??? fire hazard??? toxic???
what would you tell your son who wants to rebuild his dads pride and joy in 40 or 50 years??
i guess its all in the perspective....

Some of us take great pride in our work. In 50 years, it will NOT look like an original PL amp much less junk. It will be free of flux, chainsaw stripped wires, and burned boards.

 

[gene french]

The old junk can be dangerous to home and kats............ I'm not throwing the "Only I can afford the top shelf shit" in their face. I like the nostalgic LOOK of the PL, just not the nostalgic fire.

and you should be free to pursue your goals...
i dont fear an original board burning down my farm...and should have equal right to pursue my goals without being belittled for my decision...
2 door tahoes aint my cup of tea...but i do respect your feelings to be in one...and leave you to your goals...no belittling necessary...

 

[mr_rye89]

Both PLs I’ve picked up are/were bombs. And I’m really not a fan of working on old soiled state amps, especially high powered ones. (Remember my Adcom GFA-555?) Cheap trash bias trim pots, lifted traces, obsolete semiconductors, DC to speakers……

 

[gene french]

Some of us take great pride in our work. In 50 years, it will NOT look like an original PL amp much less junk. It will be free of flux, chainsaw stripped wires, and burned boards.

you have a crystal ball??
it may well be junk compared to what electronic technology evolves into...
again ... depends on your goals and perspective...

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

you have a crystal ball??
it may well be junk compared to what electronic technology evolves into...
again ... depends on your goals and perspective...

Don't need one. A clean amp is a clean amp.

 

[gene french]

Some of us take great pride in our work. In 50 years, it will NOT look like an original PL amp much less junk. It will be free of flux, chainsaw stripped wires, and burned boards.

one mans junk...another mans treasure...
just show a little respect and tolerance...
with someone who doesnt bow to your wishes...no matter how well intended you are...

 

[gene french]

Don't need one. A clean amp is a clean amp.

cleanliness is not a totally defining factor in the determination of what is considered junk...technology makes junk...look in an old radio shack catalog to understand my point...

 

[WOPL Sniffer]

there are over 200 classes and 15 catagories in nhra drag cars...not everyone wants to be or can afford the aa top fuel cars ...
does this mean the other 199+ classes cant enjoy or participate in the sport of drag racing???
cmon man...

Even the "Run What You Brung" classes have constraints in the NHRA...... If it aint safe, you aint racing.

 

[gene french]

Even the "Run What You Brung" classes have constraints in the NHRA...... If it aint safe, you aint racing.

phase linear vintage amps are not on osha nor underwriter labs radar as being a public fire hazard...i checked...

 

[gene french]

Even the "Run What You Brung" classes have constraints in the NHRA...... If it aint safe, you aint racing.

and who relegated mr. sniff the authority to determine what is considered safe to have and use in my home....

 

[Gepetto]

These aren't my amplifiers I'm fixing them for a friend and he does not want to do the WOPL. These will both work fine when just plugged into full AC so my only remaining question is... does it really matter if the idle current sets up differently on these two production runs? So to recap..the older one does not go down to 350mv at R128-130 where it is refrenced in the service manual but I can set it for 25ma/8mv across the emitter resistors and has full range to take it down to 0mv and past 20mv s the circuit seems to be working fine. The newer one works like it "should" by setting R128-130 to 350mv but at that point doesn't show 25ma or 8mv drop across the emitter resistors unless I take it up to about 450-500mv on R128-130. Am I missing something "special" in this circuit or will the bias be the bias and should only be measured by the emitter resistors?

If you are measuring current through/voltage across the emitter resistors at idle, you have big problems. The bias is set at the 10 ohm bias resistor, the 0.35V setting is not intended to have any main output device conducting at idle.