Well, Damn These 180 gm LPs (Again)

[Bob Boyer]

Just settled in with a Buffalo Trace and my new album - 180 gram release of Bob Seger's Ride Out. All I'm gonna say, after cleaning up the spray from my third sip of whiskey, is get the CD. The vinyl pressing sucks. Either Bernie Grundman's lost his friggin' ears (something I highly doubt because streaming mp3 snippets from Amazon sounded clear), he's forgotten how to master for vinyl (a slim possibility), or whoever Capital used to press this disc has no clue what the hell they're doing (the most likely option). $18 plus shipping down the drain.

Side two is so distorted it's awful. No use sending it back - the distortion is so prevalent it's in the pressing, which means all of 'em sound that way. Hated to do it, but ordered the CD from Amazon as I can't track down any hi-res downloads.

Which is a damn shame, because the old motor city rocker hasn't lost a beat. Musically, this is a strong album, if you like Seger. There's two great covers - Steve Earle's Devil's Right Hand and Woody Guthrie's California Stars plus some good new tunes of his own writing, including All Of The Roads, You Take Me In, Gates of Eden, and a kickass classic blues tune called Hey Gypsy. Am a little less impressed with his cover of the great John Hiatt tune Detroit Made. It's okay but I like John's original better.

Guess I'll frame this one and hang it on the wall or trade it at the local used record store for something. QRP obviously never got close to this disc.

Hmphf...

 

[laatsch55]

Great review Bob..

 

[MarkWComer]

So Ride Out didn't come with a digital download option?

MFSL 180g of the Cars Candy-O had three tiny craters in the vinyl in "It's All I Can Do," one of the quieter songs on the disc.

Pixies Trompe Le Monde has no depth- compressed to the point of being unlistenable.

The Abbey Road remaster of the Chameleons' Script of the Bridge was spread out onto two discs- 57 minutes of music- almost no bass until side three.

MFSL "Silver Label" (standard weight vinyl) Sisters of Mercy Floodland has no volume, no dynamics- a 49 minute album would have been better if it was spread across 2 45rpm discs, as was done with Costello's Get Happy.

My Endless River LP has an almost invisible scratch on "Night Light"- hard to see, but not hard to hear.

I'm with you on new vinyl- it's a toss up on whether it's going to be either poorly mastered or have some physical defects in the vinyl. MFSL did replace Candy-O, Endless River was a Christmas present and exchanging it would be a hassle since the buyer lives in Georgia and bought it on Amazon.

Whether the others are just poorly mastered or if they were pressed on Monday morning before the presses warmed up is anyone's guess- but I'm not going to buy another copy to satisfy my curiosity- too many other records to buy. Sometimes you just gotta eat it and move on...

 

[Elite-ist]

I bought the "Ride Out" CD when it first came out, and after listening to the intros to each track I was disappointed by the sound quality, and I haven't played it since. I may try listening to it again. Bob: let us know if you find the same with your copy on CD.

Nando.

 

[Bob Boyer]

God, I hope it's not supposed to sound that way, Nando. I'll wait to hear the CD and bring the subject up again, but another possibility is Chris Lord-Algae's mix. It's pretty thick, even if there's no distortion. I don't know why he's this big mix engineering god, I've never heard anything he did that didn't need a soup spoon to stir it.

I'm reminded of a Santana album from 15-20 years ago with decent music on it, one hit if I recall, but I couldn't listen to it for all the distortion.

 

[Elite-ist]

Sorry, Bob, but I have a few 8 track pre-recorded tapes that would rival the musical fidelity of this CD. Tracks 1, 2, and 3 are brick-walled.

Geri and I are going to his concert on March 7th and if I had the opportunity to have him autograph an album, it would be ''Live Bullet,'' a 40 year-old production that beat the pants off this latest recording.
However, after listening to the CD, I do love the music on ''Ride On.'' I hope he does play a few tracks from this album at his upcoming concert.

Nando.

 

[laatsch55]

Live Bullet......Amen Nando...

 

[orange]

I would dare to say it's better than Frampton Comes Alive! even.

 

[Bob Boyer]

Agree with the Live Bullet assessment, but then, Seger's studio albums from that era that (mostly) came out of Muscle Shoals Sound, all have pristine sound downgraded only by how late in the batch any given record was pressed. Musicians and engineers knew how to use their ears back then as that's all they had.

I remain unconvinced that staring into a computer monitor all day is any way to advance any art form.

 

[Bob Boyer]

I'm with you on new vinyl- it's a toss up on whether it's going to be either poorly mastered or have some physical defects in the vinyl. MFSL did replace Candy-O, Endless River was a Christmas present and exchanging it would be a hassle since the buyer lives in Georgia and bought it on Amazon.

Whether the others are just poorly mastered or if they were pressed on Monday morning before the presses warmed up is anyone's guess- but I'm not going to buy another copy to satisfy my curiosity- too many other records to buy. Sometimes you just gotta eat it and move on...

Mark, the real killer for me was dropping $150 or more on that last Dire Straits box set and the pressings were awful. Groove hash that actually covered up that quiet opening guitar line on Telegraph Road, that sort of thing. I'm still pissed off about that one. Don't know why I keep going back to that well for a drink, I guess it's just because everything isn't available yet as a he-res file.

 

[Elite-ist]

Bob: Thanks for reminding me about the Dire Straits box set. I almost bought it this past Christmas when it was marked down to $99. Dire Straits "The Complete Studio Albums 1978-1991" was the one you bought?

Nando.

 

[nelsress]

A shame

I hate to hear this, particularly when the material is strong but the pressing sucks! I've got to say however that my experience thus far buying the 180 gram records is overall not good. I've been a fan of MFSL recordings but haven't bought any newer than Steely Dan's Aja or Jethro Tull's Aqualung so I'm not the best judge of what they're doing now. Like you guys, I really like Bob Seger and would be really pissed too if I were you. Thanks for the heads up! You guys are a lot more educated about pressings and the engineers who oversee the production of albums, I just know what sounds good to me and what doesn't but perhaps I need to study up so buying records can be more predictable.

A few years ago I did buy a 180g (I think special release or edition) album of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon that I thought sounded very good, on the plus side, and was glad I bought that one. So the fact that they're often not good sounding releases, they're charging us through the nose for them! Routinely I'm seeing prices of over $20 for 180g pressings. WTF, are they trying to drive album sales down again or what!?!

 

[Gepetto]

I hate to hear this, particularly when the material is strong but the pressing sucks! I've got to say however that my experience thus far buying the 180 gram records is overall not good. I've been a fan of MFSL recordings but haven't bought any newer than Steely Dan's Aja or Jethro Tull's Aqualung so I'm not the best judge of what they're doing now. Like you guys, I really like Bob Seger and would be really pissed too if I were you. Thanks for the heads up! You guys are a lot more educated about pressings and the engineers who oversee the production of albums, I just know what sounds good to me and what doesn't but perhaps I need to study up so buying records can be more predictable.

A few years ago I did buy a 180g (I think special release or edition) album of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon that I thought sounded very good, on the plus side, and was glad I bought that one. So the fact that they're often not good sounding releases, they're charging us through the nose for them! Routinely I'm seeing prices of over $20 for 180g pressings. WTF, are they trying to drive album sales down again or what!?!

They are riding the wave of LP is cool again and those that purchase LP related stuff will spend any amount of money on it, regardless of it being quality or not. That coupled with the probability that a lot of the art of mastering LPs has been lost or has died (literally)...

 

[MarkWComer]

A few years ago I did buy a 180g (I think special release or edition) album of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon that I thought sounded very good, on the plus side, and was glad I bought that one.

And so my rant continues...

I bought DSOTM and thought it was great... until the last few minutes of side two. It sounded like there was sand in the feed screw of the lathe on that one. Everything else about the album was excellent until the heartbeat at the end came.

 

[BlazeES]

Bummer thread but it speaks truth. Quite frankly, the ruse is in the marketing. 180g doesn't guarantee quality, it only guarantees heft.
There are companies that strive to release new pressings of higher quality standards like MoFi once corned the market on but even
their best efforts can mass produce less-than-perfect results. I personally find very little that compares to MFSL releases in terms
of quality and was (and still am...) happy for the digital revolution, because it eliminated stamping issues and LP physics. Sure it
introduced all kinds of new challenges but on-balance - I don't see it as a regression. But that's an entirely different conversation.

I recently picked up the mono 2014 releases of Sgt Peppers and The White Album. Both were far from perfect, relatively expensive
and if you research discussion groups - supposedly top-shelf on quality. Luck of the draw? The White Album in many respects plays back worse than
the regular-Joe British EMI releases from 40+ years ago - which many folks consider reference, and flat out stinks compared to the MoFi pressings.
Sgt Peppers is markedly better, out of the two, but still what I would only call average. You haven't heard Sgt Peppers until you've needle dropped the UHQR.

I'm keeping Sgt Peppers because it's just below my threshold of pain, but The White Album got traded in for the Rush R40 set.
It was really bad.

Some folks transcend LP surface noise and/or listen through it. I do myself. But sometimes it's pretty egregious and admittedly unacceptable.
But at the end of the day it's still vinyl ...

 

[Gepetto]

Bummer thread but it speaks truth. Quite frankly, the ruse is in the marketing. 180g doesn't guarantee quality, it only guarantees heft.
There are companies that strive to release new pressings of higher quality standards like MoFi once corned the market on but even
their best efforts can mass produce less-than-perfect results. I personally find very little that compares to MFSL releases in terms
of quality and was (and still am...) happy for the digital revolution, because it eliminated stamping issues and LP physics. Sure it
introduced all kinds of new challenges but on-balance - I don't see it as a regression. But that's an entirely different conversation.

I recently picked up the mono 2014 releases of Sgt Peppers and The White Album. Both were far from perfect, relatively expensive
and if you research discussion groups - supposedly top-shelf on quality. Luck of the draw? The White Album in many respects plays back worse than
the British EMI releases from 40+ years ago - which many folks consider reference, and flat out stinks compared to the MoFi pressings.
Sgt Peppers is markedly better but still what I would call average.

Some folks transcend LP surface noise and/or listen through it. I do myself. But sometimes it's pretty egregious and admittedly unacceptable.
But at the end of the day it's still vinyl ...

My opinion is that unfortunately things have regressed a lot with digital. I personally cannot stand the "connect the dots" audio quality and phase distortion associated with redbook CDs. Yes it has better durability, better SNR and dynamic range, will give it that. I do think they got it right with SACD, both in sampling rate and placement of the brick wall filter frequency. Unfortunately the medium is so thinly marketed and available and that fact is discouraging. High quality digital is a great answer, but to a question that no one seems to care to ask.

The race to the bottom on streaming music is even worse that redbook CDs but the listening public does not seem to care. MFSL used to be the top of the heap on mastering but since their liquidation and sale to another it is not what it used to be either.

Really too bad that these supposedly high quality 180g LPs are not high quality sound or in some cases not even high quality pressing.

 

[BlazeES]

My opinion is that unfortunately things have regressed a lot with digital.

I respect that.

 

[Bob Boyer]

Bob: Thanks for reminding me about the Dire Straits box set. I almost bought it this past Christmas when it was marked down to $99. Dire Straits "The Complete Studio Albums 1978-1991" was the one you bought?

Nando.

Yup. Kept it for the collector's value as the people at Acoustic Sounds said that if those were the issues, it wouldn't do any good to trade; it would be just like the one I've got. So I continue to listen to my well-cared-for originals and a couple of single 180 gram reissues from years gone by or my favorite songs compilation on 15 ips tape.

I will say this about new vinyl: if you can find an album that is known to have been pressed by QRP (Quality Record Pressing?), you should be golden. I've yet to have one of those discs be less than pristine - with the lowest background noise I've ever experienced on vinyl. But that seems to be the only pressing plant out there that's consistently good.

 

[orange]

I don't mind surface noise if the record in 45 years old or something, I'd expect that.

I heard a copy of the Broken Belles LP with Soul Meets Body, was it...now THAT wasn't bad at all.

Of course, with no idea what anything but the radio sounds like for that song...

It still wasn't that much different than putting a good clean Supertramp LP on but I was impressed because I hadn't heard current music on LP in years, only unopened old albums.

Was Broken Belles better than NOS 1968 Herb Alpert? Can't say that I'd notice. A new LP is a wonderful experience in general.

 

[MarkWComer]

Some folks transcend LP surface noise and/or listen through it. I do myself. But sometimes it's pretty egregious and admittedly unacceptable.
But at the end of the day it's still vinyl ...

I don't mind surface noise if the record in 45 years old or something, I'd expect that.

I've always been able to listen past the surface noise without too much effort as long as the records weren't used as sleds by a two year old kid. Most of the time the record's music is above the noise level anyway. Something about my hearing has changed over the years and I find that I'm a little more sensitive to midranges than I used to be, so some noises affect me more than others.

"But at the end of the day it's still vinyl" AND I STILL LOVE IT!

MFSL used to be the top of the heap on mastering but since their liquidation and sale to another it is not what it used to be either. Really too bad that these supposedly high quality 180g LPs are not high quality sound or in some cases not even high quality pressing.

Which raises the question of why they bother to play the tape at half speed to get more detail when they aren't going to care about the pressing. This is like buying a Leica camera and using a magnifying glass from WalMart for a lens.

I will say this about new vinyl: if you can find an album that is known to have been pressed by QRP (Quality Record Pressing?), you should be golden. I've yet to have one of those discs be less than pristine - with the lowest background noise I've ever experienced on vinyl. But that seems to be the only pressing plant out there that's consistently good.

I bought Death's For All The World To See and thought it was great- quiet where it needed to be quiet, and headbanging loud where it was supposed to be. Pressed by RTI. I have a few other RTI pressings- what I have gotten from them has been pretty outstanding.

It's a treat to find something from years ago that's still sealed- never opened and never played. Two favorites I found from Polyrock (they actually only cut two albums and an EP) were prime examples of records in their heyday- and they're so freakin' marvelous to hear! Both on the RCA label, 1980 and 1981. I also have the Call: Into The Woods that I still haven't opened- the mood never struck me to play them (their lyrics and subject matter is a bit on the depressing side sometimes).

I also found Black Sabbath's Master of Reality still sealed on the NEMS label from Germany. Funny thing about this one- there's a pre-echo on the opening track that was there way back in the 197X Warner Brothers USA release- they didn't fix it. Perhaps a print-through on the master tape? I think this is a reissue, don't know.