tube vs solid state

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,124
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#4
I've not heard a GOOD TuBE setup yet. But I'll be here on the fence watchin.....
 

mlucitt

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
3,339
Location
Jacksonville, FL
#5
i am interested in opinions on tubes vs solid state what you prefer and the whys
Facts,
Tubes are hot and the voltages at the plates can sort of ruin your whole day if you brush across them.
Tubes are delicate (being made of glass and such) and they eventually wear out.
Tubes cost much more than transistors do, especially nowadays. I can remember the (4) 6L6GC tubes for my Fender amplifier costing $5.25 each and thinking that was a lot of money, now they are $60 for a matched pair and some guy is selling four for $375 http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-RCA-6L...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f2ec7c340
Tubes are cool to watch when the music is playing loud and the blue glow of electron flow is jumping from the heater to the plate.
I need a tube tester to check my EL34s.

Transistors are safer to work with, they are less forgiving of a mis-wiring, but the bias is a bit more critical.
Transistors are tough and once the mica and silicone grease fiasco is learned, pretty easy to change out, but they seem to last forever.
Transistors are cheap, especially when you buy 100 or 500 at a time like Lee does.
I can check an output transistor with a radio shack voltmeter.

Opinions,
Some people say you can hear the difference between tubes and transistors, hmmm. I listen to Judy Garland sing "Over the Rainbow" which never saw a transistor, and it sounds pretty good to me coming through a tube preamp and my venerable Dynaco ST-70. Of course, my hearing flatlines at about 16kHz. Others say the transistors sound edgy, but the MJ21196G outputs in my Phase Linear 700B sound warm and inviting during a fairly loud reproduction of the fourth movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony in D Minor, know colloquially as "Ode To Joy" and I particularly like the 1970 Vienna Philharmonic version where Leonard Bernstein conducts. It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up every time.

Just my $0.02,
Mark
 
Last edited:

premiumplus

Chief Journeyman
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
640
Location
Flint, MI
Tagline
Stuck in the 70's
#6
I wrote a long response then somehow it got deleted prior to posting...so here's my opinion in a nutshell...
For guitar and bass amplifiers, tubes eat transistors for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
All other applications, transistors rule.
As a guitarist I've tried for years to find a transistor setup that outperformed tubes for pure tone. I can't find it...Old Fender and Marshall tube amps just sound better at every turn.
The opposite is true in my high fidelity system. Transistors sound better and last longer, are more efficient, and cost less.
It seems like tubes sound better where live music is concerned, and transistors sound better in reproducing that live music at home. I dunno, as always YMMV.
 

speakerman1

Honorary Forum "Larrt" (ornery too)
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
12,037
Location
OZONE ALLEY MARS (Visitor)
Tagline
Wasted Days and Wasted Nights
#7
Depends on what you want the system for. Tubes not a lot of power. I can change a tube in 1 second. Can't do that with a transistor. I own both. Trans will give a more sterile sound. You can roll tubes w/o opening gear up and breaking out the soldering iron. You can get hybrid tube amps now. I like my tubes a great deal.

I will get slammed for this. I can put a SS amp into any system and it will play. I look at my tubes I built the system for a certain sound I was looking for. I knew not much power, knew what wires I was going to use. I knew the parameters and how to get to them. I haven't complained of the price on anything I buy. Who knows how much money I have setting here in just tubes. You have to look at what you want to hear.

Do a lot of research. Lee I look behind the a band and see Marshall amps I'm listening to tubes. If I remember Marshall is all tubes. What is your goal? Money wise, sound wise. What speakers are you using? How much power do you want? It is all relevant.
 

Lazarus Short

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Messages
14,293
Location
Independence, MO
Tagline
I'm the Red Knight, by grant of the Black
#8
I've had good-sounding and not-so-good sounding tube gear.

I've had good-sounding and not-so-good sounding transistor gear.

All my current gear is solid-state except for my tube buffer.

Both approaches work well, if well done, and neither can be dismissed across the board.

You pays your nickel and you makes your choice...

That being said, the debate will never end, and for the reasons stated above.

NO EASY ANSWERS, EXCEPT TO LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN.
 
Last edited:

orange

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
17,704
Tagline
Broken beyond repair but highly affable
#9
As always, I prefer WORKING.
 

Northwinds

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
7,543
Location
Coventry, CT
Tagline
Fondler errrr... fan of all Nav's avatars
#10
Had lots of quality tube setups when I was a richer dude, now it's all gone and I have a SS system that slays everything prior that had bottles. Done with tubes (except in my guitar amps that is), never looking back again

The SA-1000 that I had I do miss. Only because I got it free (working w/ cage) and sold it for $3700 on ePay 8 years ago. I miss it only because I would sell it again for more LMAO
 

Robroy

New Around These Parts
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
23
Tagline
---
#11
I wrote a long response then somehow it got deleted prior to posting...so here's my opinion in a nutshell...
For guitar and bass amplifiers, tubes eat transistors for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
All other applications, transistors rule.
As a guitarist I've tried for years to find a transistor setup that outperformed tubes for pure tone. I can't find it...Old Fender and Marshall tube amps just sound better at every turn.
The opposite is true in my high fidelity system. Transistors sound better and last longer, are more efficient, and cost less.
It seems like tubes sound better where live music is concerned, and transistors sound better in reproducing that live music at home. I dunno, as always YMMV.
I almost completely agree. My only disagreement is that, as a bass player myself, I don't think tubes matter that much. But they are huge in guitars. And Line 6 and other brands have some nice tube sound emulators but they still don't quite have the sound.

Regarding the ease of replacement regarding tubes vs Transistors, there is a reason for that. Replacing tubes is like replacing tires. You're going to have to some day. Meanwhile, transistors are assumed to not need it. It's why LED lights in many applications are very difficult to get to. There's no reason to replace them, usually.

And now on to my favorite argument regarding tubes vs solid stat regarding live vs recorded music:

The parts of an instrument used to create music actually all have a purpose in coloring the sound reproduced. It's why buzzing your lips sounds different from the sound coming out of the horn of a trumpet. The tubes in an electric guitar color the sound, and so does the wood in a violin, as both offer a nice "warm color" to the sound. And they are SUPPOSED TO.

However, a home hi-fi does not create music. It reproduces it. This means you want it to add as little color to the sound as possible - even warmth.

Modern SS does this the best for the least dollars.

Now, that being said, it is truly enjoyable to look at and know the beautiful tube amp prominently displayed on the shelf next to the TT is what is creating that wonderful sound. The act of listening in one's living or listening room is a very subjective experience. The beauty of listening to any source through your system is not just the sound. Seeing the record (or reel) slowly turning, looking at the soft glow from some of the tubes on that gleaming chrome base set in hand rubbed rosewood (or whatever material) is very much a part of the listening experience.

So, if you're purchasing the PA for a football stadium or a movie theater, it is absolutely going to be solid state. When it comes to your home stereo, the raw quality of the sound truly is not the entire equation, nor should it be.
 

Robroy

New Around These Parts
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
23
Tagline
---
#12
To add to my above post, pouring my single malt from a leaded Crystal decanter into my heavy Baccarat crystal glass definitely enhances the experience. And an "earth globe" ice cube takes it to the next step. It's not just about the flavor. The human brain has been designed to enjoy all the senses on a myriad of levels. And using a good hi-fi system to listen to your favorite music is one of the more effective ways of doing it.

And it is a much more "user participatory" activity when using analog sources, and even tube electronics.
 

Northwinds

Veteran and General Yakker
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
7,543
Location
Coventry, CT
Tagline
Fondler errrr... fan of all Nav's avatars
#13
I wrote a long response then somehow it got deleted prior to posting...so here's my opinion in a nutshell...
For guitar and bass amplifiers, tubes eat transistors for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
All other applications, transistors rule.
As a guitarist I've tried for years to find a transistor setup that outperformed tubes for pure tone. I can't find it...Old Fender and Marshall tube amps just sound better at every turn.
The opposite is true in my high fidelity system. Transistors sound better and last longer, are more efficient, and cost less.
It seems like tubes sound better where live music is concerned, and transistors sound better in reproducing that live music at home. I dunno, as always YMMV.
The only SS guitar amp that comes close to tube sound is the Sunn Beta Lead. It's the warmest and loudest SS amp I have ever owned. The 100w 2x12 combo I had easily cranked as loud as my 100w Marshalls, it was ridiculous how good these amps were and built like a tank. I see now they are quite pricy as others have also learned just how good they were. If an opportunity arise to get another with no issues and comes with the footswitch, I will be on it like flies on shit
 

premiumplus

Chief Journeyman
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
640
Location
Flint, MI
Tagline
Stuck in the 70's
#14
The only SS guitar amp that comes close to tube sound is the Sunn Beta Lead. It's the warmest and loudest SS amp I have ever owned. The 100w 2x12 combo I had easily cranked as loud as my 100w Marshalls, it was ridiculous how good these amps were and built like a tank. I see now they are quite pricy as others have also learned just how good they were. If an opportunity arise to get another with no issues and comes with the footswitch, I will be on it like flies on shit
Roland's Blues Cube series had fairly nice sound too. I had the 30 and the 60 watt versions, ended up giving them both away. Gibson's Lab Series worked real well for B. B. King...I just prefer tubes for my guitar amps by a long shot. I've got a 1967 Fender Deluxe Reverb that is a sweetheart, and I built a clone of a 1957 Fender Deluxe Tweed with a Celestion Blue in it. That amp has tone for DAYS. Really touch sensitive. When I really want to rock, I plug into a 50 watt Marshall JCM800, driving a Marshall 4x12 with Celestion Greenbacks. The quintessential rock and roll amp. Transistor amps just don't have the feel of a good tube amp. For me, anyway.
For bass, I'm more ambivalent. I use one of the new Acoustic B600 heads into two Acoustic 4x10 cabs and I get compliments on my tone all the time. I'd prefer to have a nice Ampeg tube head, but those things weigh about as much as a half-ton pickup truck, and they cost a bundle too. The Acoustic is real nice, especially after I went in and changed out the opamps to Burr-Browns.
 

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,124
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#15
To add to my above post, pouring my single malt from a leaded Crystal decanter into my heavy Baccarat crystal glass definitely enhances the experience. And an "earth globe" ice cube takes it to the next step. It's not just about the flavor. The human brain has been designed to enjoy all the senses on a myriad of levels. And using a good hi-fi system to listen to your favorite music is one of the more effective ways of doing it.

And it is a much more "user participatory" activity when using analog sources, and even tube electronics.

I can identify with that one. When having a WOPL stripped to the bare chassis, and I mean BARE, no wires, no nothin, then starting back, wire by wire, resistor by resistor, certain amounts of love, screw by nut, when you turn your creation on for the first time............ahhhhhhhhhh....../... IT DIDN"T F^%%$##@ BLOW uP!!
 

laatsch55

Administrator,
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
74,124
Location
Gillette, Wyo.
Tagline
Halfbiass...Electron Herder and Backass Woof
#16
And just how did Bob Carver make his 400 sound like a Conrad Johnson 5K tube amp??
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,522
Location
SacTown!
#18
I can identify with that one. When having a WOPL stripped to the bare chassis, and I mean BARE, no wires, no nothin, then starting back, wire by wire, resistor by resistor, certain amounts of love, screw by nut, when you turn your creation on for the first time............ahhhhhhhhhh....../... IT DIDN"T F^%%$##@ BLOW uP!!

Tell me about it!

I replaced all caps, resistors, inputs, pots....on my no good sounding, piece of crap 225 and was a bit nervous when sending full juice to it the first time. Thankfully it didn't smoke at all. I don't think I've ever heard ALK equipped, titanium tweeter Forte's sound so awful. ;)


I do enjoy having a sweet SS rig sitting right next to a stack of tube crap. It allows me to confirm the tubes suck! :D


Like others here, I do like tubes in guitar amps.......


The only real answer to the op's question is, Go listen to some nice SS and tube systems and decide which you prefer.
 
Top