The Unofficial Phoenix Open Reel Tape Thread

[Nick Danger]

​I know I always had and still have questions about tape for my reel to reels and thought we should have a place to chat about this medium. What decks like what tape? NOS? Fresh tape? Used? Tape to avoid? Recording levels, the dreaded Sticky Shed Syndrome(SSS) and all other things oxide for reel to reels. I know some of you have decades of experience with this format and would love to pick those brains for info and tips.

 

[orange]

I don't have any unofficial reel tape but I have some dubious, nearly imposterous tape.

 

[nobody]

I'd like to know what people here say about tape. My deck has bias and eq settings (1 or 2), but the tape I have (Quantegy 456) doesn't say anything about what settings to use. I have a manual doe the deck that lists settings for a bunch of tapes, but not the kind I have. How do I determine what to use and is there some sort of list for various tapes online somewhere I could check? Also, just suggestions about what kind of tape to get. Any economy choices that are decent as well as what's the goofd stuff?

 

[Retrofett]

I too fall into the catagory of "more questions than answers" I would like to know more about the medium as well. I know there are quite a few lists out there for Sticky Shed Syndrom but in my limited expierence even some of the worst offenders where still good tape if it was stored properly throughout its lifetime.

And tape baking... that whole process just freaks me out a bit. I'm not going to try and explain that process to the Ms's, ha.

 

[nobody]

I too fall into the catagory of "more questions than answers" I would like to know more about the medium as well. I know there are quite a few lists out there for Sticky Shed Syndrom but in my limited expierence even some of the worst offenders where still good tape if it was stored properly throughout its lifetime.And tape baking... that whole process just freaks me out a bit. I'm not going to try and explain that process to the Ms's, ha.

Yup, the whole sticky shed thing and all the talk on that is what has me a bit nervous about buying much to find it unusable. Great example is I found a good price on some sealed 10" metal reels filled with Quantegy/Ampex tape. I keep reading that 456 tape has sticky shed syndrome, but then I read elsewhere as long as it is made post 1995, then you are safe. The stuff I have looks visually to be fine, but I don't know if there is something else I should be checking for or if it only degrades after you start to use it. If it's fine, I'd like to go grab the rest of the reels they have because I'm not likely to find unused 10" tapes for a better deal too often. But if I'm rolling the dice and they are likely to turn to goop, I'm better off leaving them.

 

[orange]

If you check the serial/batch numbers you ought to be able to determine when it was made.

PS learning to clean the darn thing is a good skill to have anyway

 

[Elite-ist]

Sticky Shed Syndrome is the most worrisome factor for novices looking for open-reel tape to play and record on their decks. Before I knew of the list of SSS tapes to avoid, I had already done a number on the heads and tape path of my Pioneer RT-1020L using Ampex Grand Master. Looking at the Ampex tape didn't tip me off there was anything wrong with it, until it was too late. I couldn't get the heads clean enough with 99 % IPA to prevent the sound being muddled with successive good tapes. I had to take my 1020 into IA for them to service it. Whatever they had used to clean the heads on it worked.

Check this article: http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/

And of course Tapeheads had a discussion on this matter, too. It's really better to hear of members' personal experiences: http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=2597

And there's nothing wrong in buying unsealed, previously recorded stock to use on your deck. Of course, my preference is for Maxell, TDK, BASF, Quantegy.

Nando.

 

[Elite-ist]

I would check out much of Richard Hess' web site for other useful information such as running times for different lengths of tape at different speeds: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/timing.htm

Nando.

 

[nobody]

I feel like at least some of what I have is likely good, but not sure, maybe a little more detail and someone may wanna venture a guess or tell me otherwise. Place had a couple boxes of tapes, mostly 7", sealed in shrink Quantegy 456, which as far as I understand all of the Quantegy stuff is sine. So I feel good about a few of those I picked up. Now, the 10" reels is where I'm less certain. The boxes were not shrink wrapped, but the tape inside was sealed in loose plastic. The boxes were labeled Quantegy but the reels themselves say Ampex. The boxes date them to 1998. I know the two companies were related so not sure what exactly I have here and if the 1998 date is accurate. Anyone know anyway to tell?

And yeah, I have no problems buying used tape and intend to do so, just happened to come across this sealed stuff available locally and cheaper than I see online so far and figured it was worth grabbing.

And thanks for the links, will keep reading.

 

[nobody]

And, just to be clear, here are pics of what I have, box says Quantegy and tape says Ampex. I grabbed these pics from a place online in Japan selling the exact same combo of Quantegy box and Ampex tape.




Stuff was sitting with some reel machine studio pulls, owner said it all came from a studio shutting down.

 

[BubbaH]

Typically there is a tag on the end of the roll, with some numbers for identification. If someone has attached leader tape it may no longer be there.

 

[Elite-ist]

Dave: I would post that question on TH, as I suspect from what I've read the tape might have issues, but you might find out otherwise from a TH member who has used that particular formulation.

Nando.

 

[nobody]

Typically there is a tag on the end of the roll, with some numbers for identification. If someone has attached leader tape it may no longer be there.

No leaders attached, that tape is there, I'll check what's on it and see if I can glean any info from that. Yeah Nando, I'll post over there and see what anyone thinks.

Thanks, guys.

 

[Elite-ist]

In regards to bias and eq settings for tapes not listed in your deck's operating manual, I use the trial and error method. With the Quantegy 480 I purchased, when it was still being manufactured, I used this method. Record from a CD source, or other digital source. It will make it easier for cueing up later on when you compare between the source and recorded material on your R2R deck. I use my headphones to monitor while recording. Record one song, 4-5 minutes in length, and this will be your trial recording. Use a song you are very familiar with that has good dynamics, a wide range of tones, and strong vocals. Start with the bias and eq settings on your recording deck at the STD positions. Begin recording from your source while listening between Tape and Source to distinguish any difference in sound. Then while still recording, switch the eq setting to non-STD mode. Then a minute later, switch the bias to non-STD mode. A minute later switch the eq to STD mode. You should have gone through four different combination of settings by the completion of the recording and you should write down the four different settings on a pad. Rewind the tape back to the beginning of the song, cue up the CD/digital source you recorded from to the beginning of the song, then begin playing the CD/digital source and R2R at the same. I prefer to play through my stereo speakers on this test playback. Shuttle back and forth between the R2R recording and your source. You might find you prefer a setting that sounds better to you than the source. Check off on your written notes which settings you preferred.

Here's an example of a recording I did a few years back on Quantegy 480 using my Pioneer RT-707. You guess which is the recording made on the RT-707 and which is the source.

Click on image to play video:

Nando.

 

[nobody]

On the computer, I've only got little laptop speakers so listening through these does me little good, but I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I'm gathering that basically trial and error is best in this department. And that only give me more excuses to play around with the new toy so not really a problem.

 

[8991XJ]

Many machines with switchable bias and eq provide info for settings with old tapes from back when the machine was new. Knowing what the newer tapes are will help determine the correct setting. But the best method is to set the machine up for the tapes you expect to use. When I got my first big reel machine the shop tech set it up for the Maxell I was using.

I'm doing a couple machine set-ups and will again be using Maxell as the tape. I have enough to keep me going for a while.

 

[Nick Danger]

Many machines with switchable bias and eq provide info for settings with old tapes from back when the machine was new. Knowing what the newer tapes are will help determine the correct setting. But the best method is to set the machine up for the tapes you expect to use. When I got my first big reel machine the shop tech set it up for the Maxell I was using.

I'm doing a couple machine set-ups and will again be using Maxell as the tape. I have enough to keep me going for a while.

I know that I would love a tutorial on how to calibrate a deck to a certain flavour of oxide- any chance for a crash course here or in another thread, 8991XJ?

Been using the "tape a little with setting A, tape a little with setting B, etc until I like what I am getting during playback" method.

 

[8991XJ]

There is a udemy class on it that was offered on TH that I got in on. That might help me.

But basically if you have the instruments and tapes to do the set up, the service manual of the Teac and Crown go over the procedure. That is what I'm following and have done the Teac but it is not right so I will do it again.

1)set the playback head to perfect using test tones on an alignment tape
2)set the record head to match the set of the playback using test tone generator
Adjust the bias and eq to the proper performance as specified in the manual. This is done with YOUR TAPE OF CHOICE to make the set up right for your tape.

This is the first I am doing this. The Crown needs it as it was recapped. The Teac is a complete cleaning and since the manual spells it out I thought I would give it a try. I'm not good at this. If I don't get good results, I can send the electronics section of the Crown to CZ for set up. He does not need the transport as aligning the heads is separate from bias and eq.

Grab the service manual for your machine and look it over to see if you have the test equipment and other stuff necessary to do this.

 

[orange]

Dave: I would post that question on TH, as I suspect from what I've read the tape might have issues, but you might find out otherwise from a TH member who has used that particular formulation.

Nando.

From what I have seen on TH it looks like some old Ampex stock was possibly closed out in Quantegy boxes and/or initial Q stock labeled "Ampex 456" in addition to the Quantegy labelling to promote dome degree of connection and familiarity.

It's also quite possible that AMPEX 456 was placed in the Q boxes simply because thatr's what they had available to box them in.

I wouldn't expect a closing studio to be fastidious.

 

[nobody]

Yeah, that's always something in question with unsealed boxes. For me, trying out one of the reels convinced me it is fine as everyone seems to say that it would be sticky right out of the box if it was going to be sticky so feeling safe now. Really liking the sound of this machine so far, although I gotta get used to the VU meters for setting levels.