Teac X1000R Vs X2000R models

[Skywavebe]

Hello Reel tape deck persons,

As of late I have been getting in a lot of X2000R models for repair. This leads me to having to calibrate them and try to make them as good as new operational wise. The unit I am now working on has about 200 to 300 hours on the heads which are the CA orange heads. The Left channel has a lot of trouble being equal with the Right Channel at 10 KHz. When I get it equal using the bias control my analyzer says 7% distortion which is not acceptable to me. So the next idea is to optimize the head contact or at least make sure it is a best as possible as assembly lines do not leave a lot of time for adjustment. I can see from visual inspection that there is an hour glass wear pattern developing that indicates a higher tape contact with the bottom of the head that at the top. Looking at the head diagram in the book it is clear that there is NO tilt adjustment in the head mounting system and that the tangency adjustment is almost a waste of time. I have to make it known that those contemplating the purchase of a reel to reel deck on E bay or anywhere else that I can see that the X1000R design is a far better product in the way it is implemented than the X2000R design. I can't believe they have come up with a head mounting system like this as it seems to be adverse to that of the design of a good machine on the X2000R. I can see some headaches ahead for this model. If I were you I would buy the X1000R or X1000 deck as the X2000 models continue to prove to me- a past Teac Technician that they are not even as good as the X1000 models that were their pre-runner. If any of you X2000R gurus have any ideas to help me along I will be happy to review them.
It is almost like you should buy an X1000 head base plate and mount all the X2000R heads on it so that the composite machine will work to acceptance.

 

[jbeckva]

That is great info to know Sam. I'll probably be in the market for a good Reel to Reel in July, so knowing what Teacs are built better is great stuff.

 

[laatsch55]

Thanks for the post Sam.

 

[Skywavebe]

You guys may laugh at this but I thought I would post it anyways- lots of people ignore my commentary and opinion.
I have two X2000RBL unit here at my house that are in specs and ready to sell. They do not belong to me although they are here now and I know they are good to go. Pictures might be possible from Ernie who is selling them. I would contact him for further negotiation.
They are used but they look pretty good overall. They are set up for LPR35 tape.
Ernie also has many other machines to sell so if these are too much the Akai or other he has might be of interest.
Ernie is suppose to pick them up Monday or so.
Ernie's E mail is epergrem@yahoo.com

 

[laatsch55]

If one would ignore the commentary and opinion of someone who has been at his craft as long as you Sam, let them do so at their peril!!

 

[SCORE!!!]

Today I was given two of these X2000R decks from a local university's media department who was dumping a bunch of old equipment (got a few really old Wollensak school decks) and thought I had a score, hence my screenname that I chose for this site. But, now I find out that the X2000R is not really considered a good deck but a cheapened version of an older superior one. I gotta admit I thought the plastic on the front looks chintzy (especially on the silver one) but they still look pretty cool even if they are sorta 80's styled. I have plugged them in but I haven't tried them out yet as I just got them home. They are in great cosmetic shape but the tape paths are dirty. The silver one looks like it has some really strange wobbly pattern on all the heads. I've never seen anything like it, my main deck is a Teac X700R which has been flawless since the 80's (not even a new belt). The heads on the x2000R are orange but otherwise look the same, but there is hardly any wear noticeable on the X700R but what is there is smooth and even. On the xilver X2000R the wear looks really strange, almost as if a skinnier tape was played on it (even though that's not possible). Is there any way to fix this or should I just junk it as a parts deck?

 

[Skywavebe]

I often times see an figure 8 wear on these heads which are good heads if they were mounted on a better machine. The irregular head wear will lessen the life of the head and the only way to correct them is to have them lapped by JRF then remount and go fro there. All that taking of and cost of lapping and reinstallation has got to be about what new heads are worth. But being they are rare now days that may be your only choice.

 

[Des_Lab]

Sam has never been shy about openly voicing his dislike and disdain of both the X-2000R and the people who like them.

That said, congrats on your find. And if you were smart, you'd take the worse one of the two, flip it on the bay where even broken, smashed, etc ones can get $500 or more. Say what you want about stupidity and fools with their money, but it is what it is. Take the proceeds and treat yourself to some tapes and/or another deck. Cha-ching! Free ride straight into the pantheon of reel-dom.

 

[Skywavebe]

There you go putting words in my mouth that I did not say. There are many problems in the X2000R and I would be doing a dis-service to people by not reporting what I see. I did not call anybody a fool and even though there are people that make uninformed decision when buying things, it is their money to waste. I just got a call about an Akai X150 that a military guy wants fixed. i don't normally take those in but I cautioned him on the negatives on it. If I see a fractured cam then off it goes as I do not want to deal with that. Cheap stuff is what it is. Why do people put themselves through all of this when it is not necessary- I hope that some of my comments will chase them into a correct direction even if they are taken wrong by some people. I do NOT dislike people that have X2000R decks but at the same time I know they have trouble coming to them both due to heads- the mounting of and also some other strange design errors that some people neglect to pay attention to.
After all I am the guy that has to fix this stuff and some decks do not make it easy.

 

[laatsch55]

I deleted your last post Des....quit stirrin shit or you will be doing it somewhere else.....

 

[ksrigg]

What reel to reel decks do you recommend as the best value deck? If a person wanted to get back into open reel decks, but didn't want to spend a fortune..the hidden gem of decks?

 

[Skywavebe]

Why must there always be conflict? Maybe you had some bad tape. All I said is that in the many boxes I have used for calibration I have never seen a bad tape. If there are then send them back.
I know it is possible to have a bad tape now and then just like customers in 1000 service calls, there will be one or two that just are trouble- it happens all the time.
Des I am not calling you a liar and I still have no negative feeling toward you. I also did not want you to leave TH but we all have our experience and opinions and do not have to agree. That is the free speech that we are allowed until Obama and Putin take over the Internet.

 

[Skywavebe]

What reel to reel decks do you recommend as the best value deck? If a person wanted to get back into open reel decks, but didn't want to spend a fortune..the hidden gem of decks?

Depending on the format you like-
1/4 track- Teac A6300, A4300 (7" reels)
Pioneer RT707, RT909,
Technics RS models

1/2 track there are a bunch-
Tascam 42, 52 62. A7300-2T, A6100
Studer PR99, A series
Technica RS models

There is plenty more. What you want to do is buy from a service Technician with a warranty.
Watch out for that JS in New Mexico. He just shines surfaces and charges big money.

 

[SCORE!!!]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I will see if I can get some pictures up, but Skywavebe described the problem that I'm seeing on the silver deck's heads. It's strange but the black one's aren't doing it, they are wearing evenly. The black one's pinch roller system is a little sluggish though, the silver one is slippery fast like my X700R. I've read that this is tough to fix on the X2000R. On the X700R I have read it is a dried grease problem but mine has never had this problem. It might be caused by limited use because my X700R is used heavily but it has never given me a problem for years upon years.

I didn't mean to cause any problems here and I don't know what was posted since it was removed. But I would never turn around and sell something defective to make a quick buck, I would sell it fully disclosing what was going on with it including the head problems. But, I would think that most people looking to actually pay money for one of these decks would learn about the issues with them just as I have been doing, and I got them for free. But I still want to find out about the problems with this deck. I'm going to keep both for now. But getting them for nothing I would never try to sell a broken one for a substantial amount of money and I would never purposely rip someone off, that's why I asked for information here, to know just what I got with these decks.

Again, I'm sorry if I caused a ruckus. Thanks again Skywavebe for being honest. What other issues should I look for with these decks? They have the typical noisy input/output pots but the black one at least seems to function pretty much like new, but the meters when set at "cal" read a good bit low on all tapes I've tried when compared to my X700R with that deck set to "cal" as well, and all tapes were recorded on the X700R. Both the silver and black decks play tapes recorded on the X700R a good amount lower on the meters. Is this normal? Thanks.

 

[laatsch55]

You did not cause a ruckus, far from it. Nothing to do with you....old water under a long ago bridge in a land far, far away...

 

[Skywavebe]

Hi Score,
The fact that the X700R does not have stick roller yet just means it is just on it's way or that someone more recently did them already.
The X2000R Pinch Roller linkage cleaning is more difficult than on the X10000R or X10R but that is only due to the extra stuff that you need to get out of the way to do the job which then makes it more difficult. For instance, there are screw inside for the plastic cover that have to be taken out which are self tape types. Sometimes these are missing and leave the plate a bit lose so I speced them and have a 100 or so here. Then there is the head counter problem. The counter board with 4 screws have to be taken off. The LED's on this board seem to always get broken loose so I have to repair them often but not always. Depends on who worked on it before. Then you need to take off Pinch Rollers and even loosen the button panel. Sometimes on the X2000R the plastic hinge buttons are breaking off- never has this happened on a X1000R. Once you get to the linkages then a lot of DIY types put a drop of oil and do not do the complete job well then they have to do it right all over again in a few months. When I go in there it gets cleaned well all hard residue is removed even if it has to be scrapped off. Then I have used Lubriplate 105 grease and it has never failed me. I do the washer below and all parts- then also clean and grease the lifters lever. This usually takes care of the Linkages. The Belts when it is changed should have the flywheel pulld out and the bearings lubricated with oil. Then the Flywheels are put back in the right place- don't mix them up as there is a left and right side, then the washers are put back on the shafts when the belt is on and thrust plate reinstalled. The washers require the head base to be removed. It is not a big deal about 4 screws. it does not harm the head alignment if you o not touch and head screws. The washers are slipped back on and then lifted a bit such as 1/16" and then they won't rub. Next the shaft are cleaned with alcohol as they have oil on them. When putting the belt on it is good to make sure it is riding on the pulley correctly and that the belt is positioned to the rear of the flywheel as that is the forward direction position. Next you test the position switch of the belt watching to get the belt to the forward position when reverse id hit relatively fast. The BELT is a 16.8" belt that I get from Marrs Communications and being that size instead of the 17" belt Teac sells it will last longer and provide better performance. There are some cases that a belt specifics are not needed but this Dual capstan deck is one where a Marrs Belt is essential. Sloppy belts as off E bay are usually a waste of money- I have had to take many of them out in short periods of time from when the client replaced them because they were ot working right. Some of them looked oily. Now once you have the belt in and the deck is working right the next thing is to check the tension on the tension arms- If I see play tension poys up all the way I know who has been in the deck- Amateurs. The opto in the deck are position to give 5.8V on one side and 4.7 on the other- this is indicated on the schematic and no alignment procedure was ever put in a manual butt this is very important. One the right voltages are set with roller in mid cutout position then the tension is adjusted with the pots to 50g/cm. This requires a tool known as a Tentelometer. You can NOT do this adjustment without it and a few shop owners have found out. So to do the deck correctly you need a speed alignment tape, frequency counter or wow and flutter meter and a Tentelometer gauge. Often time I find that decks that have carbon trimmers are intermittent and so I put the Bourns Cermet pots in those positions and adjust and they stay good. These can be had at Mouser Electronics- make sure to get the right lead configuration otherwise you might end up with pots facing the wrong way. You can use 9mm or 7 mm trimmers but the 7mm are easier to adjust as they don't touch each other. To do the fast wind adjustment they want you to use a scope but starting from the 12 o'clock position in the pot and working up will result in an appropriate adjustment- watch out for airplane mode. This is where the deck is in fast wind and when you hit stop it goes even faster. This can be stopped by power off or pulling the roller arm down. It is caused by too high a setting on the fast speed trimmer- also changed to Cermet as well.
Well not to be long there is a lot more to do but when you have done a dozen machine they click off like clockwork. I answer questions when people send me E mails too. Sometimes the answers are long as well. That is the nature of these technical devices.

 

[SCORE!!!]

Wow! I can't thank you enough for your detailed answer. I'm not sure what I'm going to tackle first, but I suppose it will be the linkage and belt on the black one since the silver one's heads are shot. Whew, I didn't know this deck was that much of a shambles, but it seems that you are really familiar with them and I truly appreciate your help! Hopefully changing the belt and repairing the linkage will be all that it really needs. I've owned my X-700R since new and it has never been out of use or even out of my cabinet, and has never been opened up. I'm supposing it's probably time, but it has never given me one bit of trouble.

Again, is it normal for tapes recorded on the X700R to play lower on the X2000R when both decks are set to their "cal" settings?

Thanks so much again, truly.

 

[Skywavebe]

All these machines are suppose to be set up for 185nWb/M flux density but some are set to 200 due to lack of a 185 tape. That is only .6dB hotter so no big deal. If you get one tampered with or adjusted to 250 nWb/M then these tape made on that machines will play back at +3 on the X700R.
Of course not knowing their maintenance history anything could happen. Might be the deck is out of calibration or someone misadjusted it. This is very common. The way to tell is play a alignment tape at operating level on each and see where the cal position meters indicate then you can know which to work on.

 

[El Magnifico]

Hey Sam,

What about those "reel deck guys" from Montana? It seems to me that they specialize on restoring old decks and re-sell it in like new condition. I have seen lot of photos of their work. They do have lot of old TEAC machines available for sale...

 

[Skywavebe]

They are good for parts.
I have had people tell me they sent units there for repair and the deck was not right and then sent it back two more times but the deck was never fixed right. Sounds like Teac California too.
You can take your chances but I kind of think that unless you have people that specialize in repair only as their main focus rather than parting out decks a lot that you would be better off.

Why is it that I hear so many stories from customers that they spend so much money getting something fixed by a local shop and then have to bring them into me to get them done right?
I suspect the public is telling you what is going on at those shops. Remember a store front shop has to make a lot of money to pay rent and utilities and they might not be so concerned with quality but more in numbers. This translates in a lot of units going out that were barely gone over right.
There are a lot of individuals that are highly qualified that work out of their own places.
On another Tapeheads.net Forum there is Tinman, Nakdoc,Perry, ANT in the UK, Tapetech and Leon in Canada and I can't forget Pacific Stereo who restored receivers to a new condition. These are just a few that are more experts in their field than some $10/Hr Technician out of DeVry.
I have worked with a number of DeVry characters as I was a senior Technician at a refurbishing plant. One guy spent 5 hours troubleshooting a bad boom box, it had no power. I asked him if he measured the Primary of the transformer. He said he did and it measured Open. Then I said so?
He still said he was stuck. This is when I asked what school did you go to? It was DeVry.
I helped him out but what else did he not know?