Old receiver - high DC offset - no manual/schematic - bias test point & voltage?

62vauxhall

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#1
Brought a Rolecor RTA-650 receiver home because it was old (circa 1968), heavy, cheap ($10) and the lights worked. DC offset is high 0.62 volts & 0.81 volts.
Tuner works through headphones and (expendable) speakers.

IMG_3529.jpg

Wished to measure bias but found no specs, "how to" tips, manuals or schematic anywhere. Located (I think) the differential pair transistors (TO39 - 2SC497 / 2SA497), removed from circuit, tested with DMM diode function and are OK. There are some germanium transistors on the boards as well.

IMG_3521.jpg

All 4 output transistors are the same number (2N3055) but from 3 makers and as yet untested.

Could these be responsible for creating the high offset voltage? Those transistors are available brand new locally and I'm tempted to replace all four.

Tempted to replace the electrolytic capacitors also - except the large single one.

IMG_3524.jpg

And the oil ones.

IMG_3525.jpg

There's lots of space so getting at them is easy - there's more on the underside.

IMG_3528.jpg

But without knowing....

-where to check the bias voltage.
-what the bias voltage should be.
-which of the two trim pots (a large one and a small one per board) controls the bias.

....going further is likely pointless.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to do the above or what else might be responsible for causing close to 1 volt DC offset?

I've read in the past twenty-four hours that the brand Rolecor was exclusive or semi-exclusive to an Eastern US department store chain. But, the same product was branded differently and available elsewhere - Calrad was mentioned. If of any value to know, the actual maker was Roland Electronics in Japan. Claimed (or so it was written) to be a forerunner of Rotel in North America.
 
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laatsch55

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#2
I think you're looking for a TO 92 pair for the front differential stage, unless there are none...
 

62vauxhall

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#3
There are but I don't think they can be considered complimentary - 2SC828 (NPN), 2SC644 (NPN). That's why I zeroed in the 2SA497/2SC497 pairs.
 

laatsch55

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#4
Don't need to be complementary...the first 2 from the input should be them...
 

62vauxhall

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#6
Well, the transistors in closest proximity to the shielded lead from the input selector are 2SC644's and they are near enough to each other it looks like they can be considered a pair.

And a bit of luck, except for maybe the matched pair part, is that I have six 2SC1855's. According to the substitution table on alltransistors.com, they can replace 2SC644's.

Six is not an overly big pool to mach from but I'll get as close as my DMM allows.

What is your thought on the 4 main output transistors? Worth changing for consistencies sake?
 

orange

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#9
Brought a Rolecor RTA-650 receiver home because it was old (circa 1968), heavy, cheap ($10) and the lights worked. DC offset is high 0.62 volts & 0.81 volts.
Tuner works through headphones and (expendable) speakers.

View attachment 30653

Wished to measure bias but found no specs, "how to" tips, manuals or schematic anywhere. Located (I think) the differential pair transistors (TO39 - 2SC497 / 2SA497), removed from circuit, tested with DMM diode function and are OK. There are some germanium transistors on the boards as well.

View attachment 30654

All 4 output transistors are the same number (2N3055) but from 3 makers and as yet untested.

Could these be responsible for creating the high offset voltage? Those transistors are available brand new locally and I'm tempted to replace all four.

Tempted to replace the electrolytic capacitors also - except the large single one.

View attachment 30655

And the oil ones.

View attachment 30656

There's lots of space so getting at them is easy - there's more on the underside.

View attachment 30657

But without knowing....

-where to check the bias voltage.
-what the bias voltage should be.
-which of the two trim pots (a large one and a small one per board) controls the bias.

....going further is likely pointless.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to do the above or what else might be responsible for causing close to 1 volt DC offset?

I've read in the past twenty-four hours that the brand Rolecor was exclusive or semi-exclusive to an Eastern US department store chain. But, the same product was branded differently and available elsewhere - Calrad was mentioned. If of any value to know, the actual maker was Roland Electronics in Japan. Claimed (or so it was written) to be a forerunner of Rotel in North America.
That's pretty interesting, because it looks so much like an SX-440, even though the vintage is not right (Pioneer was making SX-1500 at about that time).

I would love to see the back and that mfg. tag,
 

62vauxhall

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#11
I have some 3055's if ya need em...
Thanks Lee, but I can literally have some in hand on Monday morning - I'll almost certainly be in that neighbourhood. Store's website says they're in stock @$2.50 each.

Just finished replacing those TO92 pairs. I checked the originals as I pulled them and they were OK as far as the DMM was concerned. New ones did reduce DC offset a little. Both channels are now about 0.52 volts and somewhat even.

I have errands to do for a friend tomorrow but should have time before or after to pull and check the existing 3055's. Just noticed that in addition to the transistors being different brands, the screws holding them are mismatched too.

It's unrealistic then to think a new set of those will bring down the offset?

If I knew where to test for it, I'd be willing to bet the larger of these two pots adjusts bias voltage. Would connecting meter from wiper to ground measure this?

IMG_3532.jpg
 

62vauxhall

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#16
Yes, and 4 more of the same TO92 transistors - two more pairs by the looks of them. There's just two left of what I replaced the first four with and the local shop's website says they're sold out. I'll ask anyway when I stop by tomorrow.

Earlier today, I was advised that due to the age of the unit, I should be going after capacitors not transistors. I'm unclear what that would have to do with high DC offset but since all is easy to get at, I'll price them out and if maybe do the small ones for now. All axial's so I'll see how hard those are to come by or maybe stretch a radial's legs far enough apart.
 

62vauxhall

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#19
It turned out that the amount of DC offset I was measuring was normal as this thing is capacitor coupled and was told it needed a load (resistor) connected prior to measurement. After doing so, offset became 12.5mv.

So it got new transistors and a bunch of capacitors unnecessarily but them's the breaks and I suppose it won't have really hurt anything.

It's really annoying not being able to find any info on this like power output. It can't be much but there are/were two models below it. Does internal 47 volts and two SN3055 output transistors per side indicate anything in that regard?
 

laatsch55

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#20
What does "internal 47 volts" mean ? Are you saying it has +47, -47 volts DC on the rails??
 
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