Does changing the capacitors make an audible difference?

[overmodulated]

Happy new year to you all, and I really appreciate the warm welcome. Nando invited me here from another forum, and I'm glad he did. I have not seen another forum quite like this it is very unique, and seems a lot more laid-back.

To the topic at hand;

I am not a technician, I do not fix my own gear except for simple projects over the years, and I consider my strong suit to be in set up an implementation of my gear. I'm basically a objectivist and I want to see the data, I want to see the measurements. But I do hear differences in my gear, especially my turn tables and cassette decks, there is a definite audible difference that can't be denied.

sooo... my one deck does not have any capacitors in the output section from what I'm told, and it is a fairly high end deck, but not with some consider the cats meow so to speak.

You know all the tweaks that we see, you know all the opinions that we read, but I'm wondering about real world experiences;

Does upgrading the capacitors especially in the output section of our decks make an audible difference versus the stock capacitors that it came with?

Not just yes or no, why does it?

Edit;

I should've originally stated this, and one of the variables is… What if the original caps are within spec, or the original (ones out of spec) caps replaced with OEM grade caps. So basically stock caps versus what the audio world calls high end caps.

Thanks again I appreciate the warm welcome.

 

[George S.]

Well sure. Old electrolytic capacitors often dry out. They do have a age limit. A certain manufacturer of electrolytics may have a overall good reputation, but a certain series they produced may have early failure rate.
Then there was the "bad caps plague" when production was shifting to China and rumor is they didn't have the correct formulation. That really hurt Dell computer at the time.
Also, some manufacturers cost cut production by not using the optimum caps for the product.
Really comes down to looking at the specific unit and seeing what needs replaced and can be upgraded to ensure cleaner performance and long life.
Also, newer quality components like capacitors and resistors can be had that are much better made than their old versions.
At the minimum, old electrolytics, particularly in the units power supply, should be replaced. This is known as recapping and should keep the unit functioning another 20 or more years.
As for improving the unit sonically, better capacitor substitutions can be made by someone familiar with the unit.

 

[overmodulated]

Well sure. Old electrolytic capacitors often dry out. They do have a age limit. A certain manufacturer of electrolytics may have a overall good reputation, but a certain series they produced may have early failure rate.
Then there was the "bad caps plague" when production was shifting to China and rumor is they didn't have the correct formulation. That really hurt Dell computer at the time.
Also, some manufacturers cost cut production by not using the optimum caps for the product.
Really comes down to looking at the specific unit and seeing what needs replaced and can be upgraded to ensure cleaner performance and long life.
Also, newer quality components like capacitors and resistors can be had that are much better made than their old versions.
At the minimum, old electrolytics, particularly in the units power supply, should be replaced. This is known as recapping and should keep the unit functioning another 20 or more years.
As for improving the unit sonically, better capacitor substitutions can be made by someone familiar with the unit.

I don't know the websites policy on quoting people, and some sites don't like quotes because it fills up the servers.

OK, and I definitely agree with that, and maybe I'll change my original verbiage.

What if the originals are running within spec, or they were replaced with original grade caps versus what some technicians and others considered high end caps?

 

[overmodulated]

I did an edit down the bottom of my original post, stating what I posted above.

 

[J!m]

Different capacitors can be audible (always depends on the particular circuit) but I prefer to not hear any changes- maybe a particular cap was chosen for a particular sonic “signature”… I want to hear what is on the recording, not what the (insert component) designer wants me to hear.

 

[George S.]

If your talking about those high end, high dollar, "boutique" caps, then that's something I and probably most others here don't believe in.
I believe in using the best audio grade caps from Nichicon, WIMA, Panasonic and calling it done.

 

[J!m]

The other German caps can be worth the investment, but often I agree with having a quality film cap and calling it done.

 

[George S.]

And those new standard replacements are most probably much better than the originals. Really depends on the unit when subbing films for electrolytics.

 

[overmodulated]

If your talking about those high end, high dollar, "boutique" caps, then that's something I and probably most others here don't believe in.
I believe in using the best audio grade caps from Nichicon, WIMA, Panasonic and calling it done.

Yes I mean the ones that you posted, not the boutique ones. Many online say the Nichicon, WIMA, and Panasonic caps replacing the originals make an audible difference, even if the originals are within spec.

That's what I'd like to know do people hear a difference as stated above?

 

[overmodulated]

The other German caps can be worth the investment, but often I agree with having a quality film cap and calling it done.

I have some of those German film caps in a custom built tube preamp, I can't state whether they would sound any better than an OEM type cap. This being said that tube preamp is as transparent as my other solid-state preamps that I have, and doesn't color the music at all. That's a different subject though.

 

[overmodulated]

The reason I'm asking is because there are capacitor upgrades offered by some techs and it makes me wonder if there is an audible difference.

Furthermore can it be measured?

 

[J!m]

I think anything above a Mundorf is a waste of money.

 

[overmodulated]

I think anything above a Mundorf is a waste of money.

I appreciate you being candid!

 

[George S.]

Yes I mean the ones that you posted, not the boutique ones. Many online say the Nichicon, WIMA, and Panasonic caps replacing the originals make an audible difference, even if the originals are within spec.

That's what I'd like to know do people hear a difference as stated above?

For me it's hard to say. I generally recap everything right at the start with quality parts.

 

[overmodulated]

Maybe some of the technicians on here would comment, and I would love to hear their experiences/thoughts about audible difference in capacitors.

 

[J!m]

I’m no tech but there’s more to capacitors than just “capacitance”. Digging into deeper spec details can be very important to performance and it is beyond my knowledge. Someone like Joe understands this much better.

 

[overmodulated]

I’m no tech but there’s more to capacitors than just “capacitance”. Digging into deeper spec details can be very important to performance and it is beyond my knowledge. Someone like Joe understands this much better.

That's a good start though! It is also beyond my knowledge and that's why I would like to know.

Like you suggested is there more to a capacitor than meets the eye, than meets the specs?

Is one more suitable for the than the other?

Is one more suited for power supply?

 

[J!m]

Most have a slew of specs beyond capacitance and voltage. And they are important.

Plus the types- electrolytic, film, PiO, ceramic, silver-mica…

 

[Lazarus Short]

A few years back, I took a dead Cyrus amp in for repair. When it was "done," it still did not quite sound right. Subjective, I know, but I looked at the preamp section and there were these two caps...and they were cased in bakelite instead of the usual aluminum. That might have been fine, but there were many tiny cracks. I replaced them with Nichicon Muse caps and while I was at it, I recapped the entire preamp section. With that done, the amp sounded right. I cracked the bakelite caps open and sure enough, they were bone dry.

 

[overmodulated]

Things that you can't see from a visual check, really interesting.