DER EE DE-5000 LCR Meter

George S.

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#1
I've had this a good while and have used it for testing large, expensive capacitors in old equipment. Jim asked how to test capacitance in interconnect cables, something I haven't tried, so here's some results.
When I bought my meter there was some talk on the net that the newest meters were now using a sine wave test signal instead of a square wave. Testing shows a sine wave on this unit.
 

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George S.

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All my interconnects were old cheapies until I bought Chinese Monoprice Monolith cables. Still a very cheap cable. So let's measure it. The meter generates the sine wave in one of 5 frequencies from 100 kHz to 100 Hz. Changing frequency had a very small effect on results, so let's use 120 Hz for testing. All results are pF.
 

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George S.

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#7
Word on the net is DER EE manufactures the Agilent LCR meter. So they use the same chipset in the DE-5000, but due to licensing, the DE-5000 is available only from Japan. Lots of sellers of these on the Bay from Japan, and China is now making cheap clones. I got mine direct from Japan, and they have gotten less expensive over time. It's a very good meter. Many videos on using it are out there. Later.
 

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#8
Cool!

Big difference in the "home brew" compared to the commercial ones, which are all quite similar from what I see. Yes, it's shorter too...

But, being pf, how audible would any of them be???

And, I got my earlier question asked: how to physically take the measurement. Now that I see you connect the probes at pin and shield on the same end, and leave the other end to float, I can try testing stuff with my Fluke in a similar manner. Too bad I don't have any of the same cables to compare results with...
 

George S.

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All good questions that I haven't a answer for. I need to spend some time and find Switchcraft RCAs that are appropriately sized for that Belden coax, and make up a full set for a listen. I have that coax bushed with automotive vacuum line and heat shrink.
Doubt your Fluke will work for this application. Those are 4 wire Kelvin clips. Those clips are a popular modification for this meter. The meter passes the built in calibration procedure with those clips.
I've read elsewhere that guys are using these meters and a oscilloscope with some sort of test record to set up their tables.
 

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#10
I also have the DER meter and a bench top LCR meter. They both provide very similar results, within a pF or so. The DER is a very handy LCR meter in a small size.

It does not matter if you connect the shield and one end and stinger at the other or both at the same end, the result is the same. You are just measuring a classical 2 plate capacitor with dielectric between them.

You can see that your interconnects are not negligible when it comes to capacitive loading of your cartridge. Bound to have some effect on the weak signal produced by a phono cartridge.
 

e30m3mon

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#11
My DE-5000 was delivered yesterday…while I have barely kicked the tires on it, I have done some basic tests and find it to be a very substantial tool. Thank you George for starting this thread and sharing your experience with it. Joe’s endorsement is further support of a “must-have” tool.
Regarding the Kelvin cables…so many options on ebay, and it seems all have their roots in China … some with questionable build quality, shipping questions (locations in US, but ultimately looong shipping delays due to unscrupulous sellers not stating the actual origin…seems that is becoming a nuisance on ebay)…

regardless, I am considering to build my own cables instead of rolling the ebay dice. Kelvin clamps from Amazon, are hopefully in local warehouses, and likely of same quality, but at least I know the wire will have excellent shielding. That seems to be a key concern with cable construction.

https://www.amazon.com/Dahszhi-Gold...6?keywords=kelvin+clips&qid=1673960855&sr=8-6

So my question is would it be advantageous or ridiculous to use good cable like RG-318 or just go with some high quality aluminum wrapped, with ground cable, 2-conductor audio wire? Conductor quality might be moot, since the open&shorted calibrations will compensate for capacitance, etc. in the cable quality?

not sure…that’s why I’m asking
Al
 

George S.

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#12
I think I ordered my Kelvin's from eBay and they arrived in Amazon inner packaging. The meter wouldn't calibrate with the full cable length, so I ended up shortening them some. Saw this issue discussed on a thread somewhere on another site. I 'm using the original cable, seems to work well. The clamps themselves are good quality, I have no issues with them.
Al, the original PCB in the DER EE adapter isn't the best quality. Be careful with the heat unsoldering and resoldering in your Kelvin cables.
 

e30m3mon

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I think I ordered my Kelvin's from eBay and they arrived in Amazon inner packaging. The meter wouldn't calibrate with the full cable length, so I ended up shortening them some. Saw this issue discussed on a thread somewhere on another site. I 'm using the original cable, seems to work well. The clamps themselves are good quality, I have no issues with them.
Al, the original PCB in the DER EE adapter isn't the best quality. Be careful with the heat unsoldering and resoldering in your Kelvin cables.
Yeah ... we're used to the high quality boards in WOAD kits!
I read somewhere 30cm / 12" is the optimal length for the wires.
Thanks again George.
 

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I have made up several test leads from 8’ RG62/U IBM coax cables I bought on ebay. The low inductance match my Sencor capacitor tester original cables.

these were surplus’s at the time and cheap. Keep an eye out for them
 

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#20
I had a nice looking one my dad and I (mostly him) made. We added balsa slabs to the sides to create wheel wells and sculpted wood putty to smooth alll the right curves… had a C3 type rear window; long nose short tail which was angle cut like the early road racers. Drilled holes in the back for exhaust.

Painted a dark red and black windows painted on. Pretty cool but it wasn’t a winner on the track or in the show.
 
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