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Thread: Misadventures in Bi-Amping

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    Forum Veteran Lazarus Short's Avatar
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    Misadventures in Bi-Amping

    I tried biwiring a while back - no big improvement. Went back to single wire. Now, with all the amps I currently own, I decided to biamp. I already had this Yamaha DSP-A2070, and then scored a Yamaha A/V receiver at a sale the other day. There was wire enough, so the 100 wpc receiver for the highs, the DSP (80 wpc) for the lows - it has great bottom end. I set them both up to run off the Acoustat preamp.

    Sound: a bit disjointed, not integrated top to bottom, a bit flat, distant, veiled. The A/V unit is a bit noisy, I have no way to know if the units are level-matched. So...it's back to single amp, single wire, either the Cyrus or the Luxman. End report.
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    Forum Veteran MarkWComer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
    I tried biwiring a while back - no big improvement. Went back to single wire. Now, with all the amps I currently own, I decided to biamp. I already had this Yamaha DSP-A2070, and then scored a Yamaha A/V receiver at a sale the other day. There was wire enough, so the 100 wpc receiver for the highs, the DSP (80 wpc) for the lows - it has great bottom end. I set them both up to run off the Acoustat preamp.

    Sound: a bit disjointed, not integrated top to bottom, a bit flat, distant, veiled. The A/V unit is a bit noisy, I have no way to know if the units are level-matched. So...it's back to single amp, single wire, either the Cyrus or the Luxman. End report.
    Think about that- your woofers have large diameter voice coils around a large magnet. Big cone. Moves a large volume of air. This requires more current.
    Tweeters/mids are much smaller diameter coils, move the cones/domes back and forth with a much smaller excursion. Current demand is less.

    Use the higher wattage amp for the lows and the smaller wattage amp for the highs and see if there's a difference. (The difference you state is only 20watts, actually I don't expect there to be much difference, but just give it a shot for shits 'n' giggles...)

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    Forum Veteran Lazarus Short's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkWComer View Post
    Think about that- your woofers have large diameter voice coils around a large magnet. Big cone. Moves a large volume of air. This requires more current.
    Tweeters/mids are much smaller diameter coils, move the cones/domes back and forth with a much smaller excursion. Current demand is less.

    Use the higher wattage amp for the lows and the smaller wattage amp for the highs and see if there's a difference. (The difference you state is only 20watts, actually I don't expect there to be much difference, but just give it a shot for shits 'n' giggles...)
    I was aware of the wattage thing, and meant to use the Luxman A-007 (50 wpc) for the highs. It has a preamp out, and I can use the big Yamaha as a power amp. I still don't know how I would level-match. I think I will try that, however, so's I can avoid having the signal go through a pre and then an integrated.
    What an elder can see sitting down, a youth cannot see standing up. [old Yoruba proverb]
    Look! Isn't that Uncle Patrel in a...in a taxi?! [3Mustaphas3]
    But...you keep looking over your shoulder...to see if I am ​there... [Curved Air]
    Who gives water to a goose as the land brightens for the morning of its slaughter? [Egyptian, Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor]
    ...more dust bunnies than a desert bordello... [Orange]
    Aziz...LIGHT! [Professor Pacoli, Fifth Element]

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    Forum Veteran Fishoz's Avatar
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    I bi-wire with a good jumper cable (mids to highs) only to get rid of the jumper bars B&W supplies. There was a noticeable difference. System sounds good to my 60+ year old ears. I doubt if bi-amping would make a noticeable difference to my ears.
    Oppo BDP-83, Pro-Ject 1Xpression III, Pro-Ject Speed Box S, Cambridge Audio Azur 651P, Acurus L10, LL WOPL 400, B & W 808's.

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    Forum Veteran Lazarus Short's Avatar
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    SUCCESS!!!
    Well, I could have done this months ago - I set up the Luxman A-007 to use its internal DAC instead of the DAC in the Denon DVD player (I'll A/B those later), and to power the mids and highs. I connected the Luxman's pre-outs to the main-in inputs of the Yamaha DSP-A2070, to power the woofers. This eliminated a lot of circuitry, and I got to use only one volume pot, as the Yamaha is working as a power amp. Thus the 50 wpc of the Luxman adds to the 80 wpc of the Yamaha, and my ears can sense the increase in power. Everything I said about my previous attempt is reversed - the sound seems (to my ears) integrated from top to bottom, coherent, immediate, clear and crisp. I got to hear the B&W 802's the other day at a local audio salon ($21,000), so I may be just a bit critical of my system, but it does sound better. I've listened to Varttina and Radio Tarifa so far, and percussion is great.
    What an elder can see sitting down, a youth cannot see standing up. [old Yoruba proverb]
    Look! Isn't that Uncle Patrel in a...in a taxi?! [3Mustaphas3]
    But...you keep looking over your shoulder...to see if I am ​there... [Curved Air]
    Who gives water to a goose as the land brightens for the morning of its slaughter? [Egyptian, Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor]
    ...more dust bunnies than a desert bordello... [Orange]
    Aziz...LIGHT! [Professor Pacoli, Fifth Element]

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    Forum Veteran BlazeES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
    SUCCESS!!!
    Well, I could have done this months ago - I set up the Luxman A-007 to use its internal DAC instead of the DAC in the Denon DVD player (I'll A/B those later), and to power the mids and highs. I connected the Luxman's pre-outs to the main-in inputs of the Yamaha DSP-A2070, to power the woofers. This eliminated a lot of circuitry, and I got to use only one volume pot, as the Yamaha is working as a power amp. Thus the 50 wpc of the Luxman adds to the 80 wpc of the Yamaha, and my ears can sense the increase in power. Everything I said about my previous attempt is reversed - the sound seems (to my ears) integrated from top to bottom, coherent, immediate, clear and crisp. I got to hear the B&W 802's the other day at a local audio salon ($21,000), so I may be just a bit critical of my system, but it does sound better. I've listened to Varttina and Radio Tarifa so far, and percussion is great.
    Awesome. Glad to see you found a combo that works and that you hear the difference.
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    Forum Veteran Fishoz's Avatar
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    Holeeeey Shiiiit....they want $21,000 for 802's now!!!!
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    I'll be the first to admit I'm CHEAP, but then again I built many of my speakers.
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  10. #10
    Forum Veteran Lazarus Short's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange View Post
    I'll be the first to admit I'm CHEAP, but then again I built many of my speakers.
    I'm cheap too, and the furthest I ever got up the B&W food chain were the Matrix 805's, used at an auction. I'm suspecting that the B&W wafflebacks in the shop system may well sound better on the top end than the Vandersteens. Another A/B comparison in my future...


    What an elder can see sitting down, a youth cannot see standing up. [old Yoruba proverb]
    Look! Isn't that Uncle Patrel in a...in a taxi?! [3Mustaphas3]
    But...you keep looking over your shoulder...to see if I am ​there... [Curved Air]
    Who gives water to a goose as the land brightens for the morning of its slaughter? [Egyptian, Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor]
    ...more dust bunnies than a desert bordello... [Orange]
    Aziz...LIGHT! [Professor Pacoli, Fifth Element]

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